TGIF Lite Post
Friday, 15. May 2009
MSM & the Movies
I know the last post on the Dissecting the Media series will keep you busy for a while, and there are many points in there still to be discussed. Just the first citation, Bernstein’s piece, is long and heavy enough to deserve a few days of ‘staying power’ as the latest post. Do you agree?
I’ll be working on Part 2 of the series, and of course trying to complete my current op-ed project on our President of ‘Change’, through this weekend.
I know Friday happens to be a big deal, big relief, for some people, so instead of my usual heavy and grim posts, I am going to leave you on a ‘lite’ and bit of fun note. If it’s received well, we’ll make a tradition of it and have our ‘TGIF Lite Post’ every week. If not, I’ll do my best to find deep dark depressing aggravating topics to fill up your weekends 
Here goes this week’s experimental TGIF Lite Post:
‘Three Days of the Condor’ is a 1975 movie directed by Sydney Pollack starring Robert Redford. The movie is a suspense drama set in New York and depicts the moral ambiguity of the actions of the US government post Vietnam War and Watergate. Joe Turner, Redford’s character, is a CIA employee who works in a clandestine office in NYC…
My question: What is the famous dialogue delivered at the end of the movie that relates to our latest post (Part 1- The Agents of…Influence?’)-Exact Verbiage (don’t worry it’s very very short!)? Who is the character with the punch line of the dialogue? Who is the actor playing him?
Okay, if you haven’t seen this movie I recommend you rent and watch it. Not for any artistic qualities, but for its interesting perspectives and a few questions it raises. For those of you who have seen the movie, let’s see how far you can push your memory and how close you can come. I know nowadays this whole thing can be searched and found on the Internet, but what’s fun about that?! It will be interesting to see the different versions of that quote based on each person’s recollection.
Also, can you think of any other movies related to what we are covering now with the MSM? Please share them with us.
Have a nice weekend.
Update:
Actor: Cliff Robertson
Character: Higgins
Role: Deputy Director, CIA New York
Turner: “they’ve got all of it”
Higgins: “What did you do?”
Turner: “I told them a story, you play games, I told them a story”
Higgins: “Ah you, you poor dumb son of a bitch”, “You’ve done more damage than you know”
Turner: “I hope so”
Higgins: “You’re about to be a very lonely man”, “It didn’t have to end this way”
Turner: “Sure it did”
Higgins: “Hey Turner”, “How do you know they’ll print it?” “You can take a walk, but how far if they don’t print it?”
Turner: “They’ll print it”
Higgins: “How do you know?”
Rob Says:
{quote}Also, can you think of any other movies related to what we are covering now with the MSM? Please share them with us.{end quote}
Network
Small clip here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTN3s2iVKKI
Rob Says:
From Network:
There is no “democracy”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzSj1yNZdY8
Sibel Edmonds Says:
Rob: That’s a really good one. It’s been ages since I watched it. Time to rent it again.
Rob Says:
Not necessarily a ‘movie’, but a documentary:
Corporate Media in American Society (part 1/2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SCcivXwxOU
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ8larXs4WU
Anonymous Says:
Its been a while since I watched “Three Days of the Condor” ,but I’ll take a shot. The character was CIA Director, I don’t remember the actor who played him, and the line was “and what paper do you think you can go to?”
Jeff
Anonymous Says:
Cliff Branch (actor’s name): You really think the NY Times will print your unpatriotic conspiracy theories?
Turner: I happen to know a reporter with unimpeachable integrity named Jenneth Biller. She will run the story.
Branch: Maybe it will run..after a couple of election cycles…on page A50.
Turner: Come on Branch! Journalists are the 4th estate! They live for stories like this. You are gonna be in for a series of investigations. I happen to know that Rep. Tracksman is clamoring to investigate. He doesn’t answer to higherups in his party either.
Branch: You’ve seen too many movies Turner. The plan was a slam dunk. Sure invading the Middle East would have been a disaster but the case for fooling the public would have been a slam dunk and that my friend is what matters. I might even write a book about how easy it is to fool the public into believing the agency is actually on their side.
Turner: You’re sick.
Branch: You’re an amateur Turner. One day you will realize the sickest of plans can be disguised by claiming incompetence. We will simply tell the public we meant well but the ACLU got in the way and thus our public service motive got mistaken for some twisted profiteering scheme.
Turner: That doesn’t even make sense.
Branch: And your point is?
Sibel Edmonds Says:
Rob: ooops, I was ref. to ‘The Network.’ The famous monologue scene is a must see.
Rob Says:
Dan Rather tells all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ckeqIoZz9c
Sibel Edmonds Says:
Anon: Priceless!!!!!! You made my evening; love love love it, and still laughing:-))))
Rob Says:
Although not a movie, I found this to be, quite honestly, prophetic. It is an editorial written by Phillip Freneu circa 1792.
Excert from the site:
Those who had opposed the Constitution thought their fears justified by the conduct of the government that began to function in 1789. Under the aggressive leadership of Alexander Hamilton, the secretary of the treasury, economic measures were taken that favored the few, while an effective party machine was organized and the army strengthened in such a way as to suggest an intent to control rather than to represent the many. The whole tone of Washington’s administration was aristocratic, favoring as it did the educated, the wealthy, the clergy, and the press, who were fearful of “mob rule” and preferred to see what Hamilton called “gentlemen of principle and property” in command. As Hamilton had at his service a newspaper — John Fenno’s Gazette of the United States — to support his policies, his opponents, led by Jefferson and Madison, decided to establish a rival newspaper, the National Gazette. Philip Freneau, an experienced journalist of known democratic leanings, was chosen to edit the paper. The editorial, reprinted here, is typical of those in which Freneau criticized the Hamiltonian program from 1791 to 1793.
…end excerpt.
The entire editorial appears on the website of Constitutional lawyer Larry Becraft.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/FRENEAUbanking.html
The Title is Rules for Changing a Republic into a Monarcy
Rob Says:
Yuri Bezenov.
Yuri Bezmenov, a Russian born, KGB trained subverter tells about the influence of the Soviet Union on Western media and describes the stages of communist takeovers. This interview was conducted by G. Edward Griffin in 1984. This video has been remastered and is now available on DVD. See http://realityzone.com/bezmenov.html
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-2307456730142665916&hl=en&fs=true
Chad Slack Says:
I gotta recommend “Good Night, And Good Luck”, which shines the light on the process by which news divisions were turned into profit centers for the corporations that owned them. Haven’t seen Condor for ages, but I still remember the scene where Redford says over the phone, “Ain’t we pals anymore?”
Anonymous Says:
Character: Higgins via Cliff Robertson
Turner (Redford) tells him he’s given the story to NYTimes, and Higgins says, something like…’and you think they will print it?’
eric zaetsch Says:
Condor – Redford, and van Sydow offering a lift, “Don’t worry, I haven’t been contracted to kill you,” something like that, and then also suggesting his trade as something the younger man might consider as something he considers cordial and hospitable — overly heavy on irony, but acted well, understaement being well handled.
Was there really a “Jenneth Biller” line in Condor? That one I missed.
Condor was a screen version of a book, I think the same with Network.
Has Hollywood ever on its own done anything noteworthy?
While MSM was absent, the Jason Bourne book-film items fit in with Condor with regard to ambiguity and ambivalence within the intelligence community.
Pelican Brief again was film adaptation of a novel.
A similar non-fiction book made into a film, John Travolta in “A Civil Action,” was based on a book by an investigative journalist – I have no idea what the local media did with the underlying true situation as it was playing out – but both films, Civil Action and Pelecan Brief, were quite similar in theme, played out differently in detail.
It seems MSM is always on the “trailing edge” when it breaks anything at all – Watergate after the election had been decided; the Pentagon Papers after policy had shifted to nailing shut Vietnam as a bad idea tried then ripe for abandonment. Ditto with the current torture hand-wringing. A sort of placing an exclamation mark onto something after the public’s been decisive to where propaganda and official opinion decline to counter.
Since nobody else has yet said “Chomsky,” I say it — have a look:
http://www.chomsky.info/
http://www.chomsky.info/onchomsky/2002—-.htm
http://www.chomsky.info/articles.htm
A favorite Chomsky item:
http://www.chimedex.com/common%20images/SPECTATOR%20DEMOCRACY.pdf
Another informative approach is simply doing a Google = chomsky propaganda
Chomsky has noted that propagandists realize that sometimes their effort does not take, and thier guidance is not followed – and the observation I have seen is when this happens the propagandists try to exit gracefully – and that’s seen sometimes in MSM actions as well as in parts of legislative hearings. In politics that’s putting a different “spin” on things, allegedly a Rovian skill. In Minnesota where I live, there was Norm Coleman publicly saying last election cycle that he’d abandon “negative campaigning” as demeaning to the democratic process, days before some highly negative information about litigation naming him as an indirect recipient of wrongful giving hit the local press.
As to the cliche about separation of the news pages from the editorial pages, it has been said the most fundamental editorial decision is what to print or not print, apart from objectivity in reporting and printing something once it’s deemed fit as a story.
Finally, in that context of what to print or not and in terms of film, Hoffa, and the “Kill the story” sequence having the DiVito character sending a package to the Detroit paper publisher/editor, perhaps has a place in this discussion, if not too indelicate.
eric zaetsch Says:
On the general theme of slowness or inadequate coverage of news, this is a good link:
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7135
Also, these supporting items:
[linked to by bradblog]http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/05/10/ibn-al-shaykh-al-libi-has-died-in-a-libyan-prison/
[Brit maiinstream]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/mar/30/guantanamo-abu-zubaydah-torture
http://www.juancole.com/2009/05/al-libi-case-eloquent-testimony-against.html
[next, linked to by Juan Cole]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/11/ig-report-waterboarding-w_n_201733.html
Spinoza Says:
To those who have seen the clips from the movie Network and think it's great, see more of it cited in Reel Bad Arabs:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-223210418534585840&hl=en
starting watching at 15:55 and see what that movie was actually about…
Anonymous Says:
Anonymous at 10:04AM,
I’m sure you are right about Cliff Robertson’s role as Higgins.
But, I believe the Dialog was closer to :Higgins: You have no idea the harm you’ve done.
Turner: ..?…
Higgins: What makes you think they’ll print it?
Turner: They’ll print it.
Higgins: How do you know?
I know this isn’t exact, but I think it’s closer than what’s been offered so far.
Peace,
JK
Rob Says:
The Global Media and the Gaza Haulocaust of 2009: It Is Happening Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9mkRiGbgZg
Ok, I know its a serious film, but I couldn't help but laugh at the comment left by Raijuryu
"I must be the luckiest Palestinian in Ireland." ~ Palestinian in Norther Ireland replying to a man whom he asked at knifepoint "Are you a Catholic or a Protestant" upon which he replied, "Neither, I'm a Jew".
>.<
Sibel Edmonds Says:
Spinoza: Which one did you watch? Network or 3 Days of the Condor? Either way, I really like both…what’s your take?
JK: I agree. I rented the film (for the XXXth time!), and will watch (this time only the last segment…maybe;-)it tomorrow afternoon. I’ll post the ‘exact’dialogue ‘n this post, under ‘Update.’
Erik Says:
Wag the Dog- DeNiro: “Of course there’s a war. I saw it on TV.” and “The war is over- I saw it on TV”
anon beat me to Three Days (imdb says it’s Cliff Robertson, btw- why use my head when I’ve got the web?)
Another famous related Three Days passage, which gives insight to how/why the spin works on a significant % of the population:
Turner: “Boy, what is it with you people? You think not getting caught in a lie is the same thing as telling the truth?”
Higgins: “No. It’s simple economics. Today it’s oil, right? In 10 or 15 years – food, Plutonium. And maybe even sooner. Now what do you think the people are gonna want us to do then?
Turner: “Ask them.”
Higgins: “Not now – then. Ask them when they’re running out. Ask them when there’s no heat in their homes and they’re cold. Ask them when their engines stop. Ask them when people who’ve never known hunger start going hungry. Do you want to know something? They won’t want us to ask them. They’ll just want us to get it for them.”
Roger Remo Morris Says:
I know this one.
turner said:”Listen. There is unreacted Thermitic material IN the dust . ok?! Its IN THERE.Proof!This matters!”
BRANCH:”And who do you think it matters a dam to? The LAW? you think thats even gonna REGISTER on the radar??! We OWN the story! The story already in their heads…WE OWN IT. We put it there. Active themite! Its nothin..we still control this don’t worry.”
Turner:” No. you don’t understand, I mean I believe you, but somethins changing outsida that. You don’t feel it ’cause your bones are dead, but its out here. People hear it…all over the world., they hear it. You might not know…it may be out of your hands…”
Branch:” We will control it. You watch. What do you think the commission report was? NIST? Who do you think runs this?!You heard anything of Barry JENNINGS lately?” lately???? “
Spinoza Says:
Hi Sibel, I haven’t watched either actually. But when I watched Reel Bad Arabs I was disappointed to find that the character in Network is “mad as hell” that Arabs are using their oil money to buy pieces of America, including his network. I have no great love for the anti-democratic “oil sheikhs” but that doesn’t make that kind of scapegoating right–in fact it makes me wonder why they would be chosen as scapegoats in the first place…
LLewis Says:
“Three Days of the Condor” is a superb film that every American should see at least once. It may take several viewings, however, to catch all of the fine detail.
In the final scene, HIggins (Cliff Robertson), the corrupt CIA official, walks up to Turner (Robert Redford), the CIA whistleblower, on a NYC street, Turner is standing next to a street santa with a sign requesting donations for “Lighthouse for the Blind.”
Turner tells Higgins that he has given the whole story to the New York Times. Higgins turns pale, then asks, “How do you know they’ll print it?” Turner responds confidently, “They’ll print it.” After a dramatic pause, Higgins leans in and says ominously, “How do you know?”
When “Condor” was released, the Pentagon Papers case was still fresh in the public consciousness. In Turner’s mind, the New York Times was the newspaper that published the classified Pentagon Papers despite a firestorm of government opposition. By 2004, things were very different. That year, the Times caved to pressure from the Bush administration and put the disclosure of NSA warrantless wiretapping on hold for more than a year.
“Condor” brings to mind a quote from Henry David Thoreau, who said, “It takes two to speak the truth; one to speak and another to hear.” But, to get the truth to a large audience, whistleblowers were long dependent on newspapers, radio and television. Now, truthtellers can directly and inexpensively communicate with listeners around the world via web blogs, text messaging, YouTube and other new technologies. Thus, the sequel to “Condor” is being written by internet-savvy whistleblowers.
Sibel Edmonds Says:
LLewis: Welcome to the site.
"It may take several viewings, however, to catch all of the fine detail."
I am with you. Watched it again today, and I know will do so again & again;-)Thoreau Quote: How appropriate for our context; same with Pentagon Papers' era NY Times v what it has been degraded to. Hope to have you here regularly.
Erik: 'Wag the Dog' definitely makes the list. Were you typing as you were watching the film?! Good job!!
Spinoza: I don't even remember that line, but you are right. On a differrent topic, let's say 'Foreign Lobby' and sold-out congressmen, maybe. Also, those oil sheikhs happen to be our 'special interests'' puppets in that region, so in the end, it becomes the same 'group we are after. No?
I will post the right answer under update. A few of you seem to have it right.
Anonymous Says:
The Book: Secret Power – New Zealand’s Role in the International Spy Network– Echelon
(Freedom of Information Act (FOIA)requests for over 20 years created this book about the National Security Agency)
by Nicky Hager, but it reads like the Dictionary. A book of data only.
Published by Craig Potton Publishing,
PO Box 555, Nelson, New Zealand
This book could never have been published in America and exists in fewer than 100 libraries throughtout the world. American University, I believe has a copy.
First published 1996
Reprinted 1996
Any Book About Mark Felt the Assistent FBI director that helped Carl Bernstein uncover WaterGate.
Sibel Edmonds Says:
There goes my dream of New Zealand! Seriously, I am applying for PhD program over there…I knew a bit about how they served NSA, but their antiwar history/stand kind of reassured me…darn.
And, thank you for the recommendation.
William Says:
Dear Sibel,
Thank you for your courage and giving us hope. I am eagerly waiting the day this nightmare will be over.
Concerning Three Days of the Condor. Notice that the main protagonist works in a unit dedicated to finding traces or leaks of secret government plans in works of fiction.
Retrospectively, it appears that a number of films leak very sensitive information, in disguised forms. I think Three Days of the Condor is one of them.
There are others.
“The Siege” is a 1998 (!) film that depicts martial law being instaured in New York after terrorist attacks in Manhattan. A CIA asset palestinian turns out to be one of the terrorists, and there is much CIA-FBI fighting depicted. While the film slightly reeks of sionist propaganda, the resemblance between the film and 9/11 is simply disturbing, especially given that many scenes are set in Brooklyn with full view of the twin towers.
Now consider this. The film’s tagline was “On November 6th our freedom is history.” November 6th is 11/6. Now write 11/6 on a piece of paper and turn it by 180 degrees. This would be really stupid tinfoil hat-grade stuff if the film did not have such striking similarityies with 9/11 and its aftermath.
(Bu arada turkce biliyorum ve size basarilar diliyorum!)
jersey girl Says:
I would highly recommend “V for Vendetta”. One of my all time favorite movies from 2006 by the Wachowski brothers (the Matrix)
The MSM is really skewered with a bit of humor in this film. My favorite line from that movie spoken by “V” is: “People shouldn’t be afraid of their government, government should be afraid of their people”
Ahhh now if only we could get the American people to BELIEVE that.
Sibel Edmonds Says:
Jersey Girl: Welcome.
‘V’for Vendetta- Most definitely in my ‘A’ list for the exact same reason. The jolt it gives me, each time I watch it, surpasses 4 quadruple espresso shots! And yes, great line.
William: Hos Geldiniz:-)
‘The Siege’: Bruce Willis was in that movie right? If I’m not mistaken Linda Obst was the producer. In fact, I watched it (for the first time) in 2002; shockingly similar.
Hope to see you here regularly.
Anonymous Says:
New Zealand is fine Sibel, at least one of their reporters still does the job of reporting real news. Less of the info-tainment cultural practice we observe here: Wherein anything remotely serious and non-commercial is instantly deleted.
I am a loyal. patriot, GOOD, American because I WORK, WORK, WORK, AND SHOP, SHOP, SHOP, AND SLEEP IF I CAN. And rarely get distracted by unnecessary thought and reflection because I am a normal wage slave, struggling to pay off my mortgage and debt burdens.
As for Echelon: American INTELLIGENCE SERVICES?? AND the UK essentially run the thing. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, as a minor part of the English speaking world are just along for the ride. America occasionally throws them a bone. America has lost the natural grace generations ago that New Zealand still has.
Sibel, What will you study in New Zealand? I hope Mr. Edmonds can find a good job while you are studying so hard. You deserve a couple of honorary Phd’s already. Atleast, as many as our dear president O’bama.
I have been a fan of yours for several years. You and Mark Felt are people, who have made a difference in this life. I admire your courage. And aspire to meet you some day if you are ever in Southern California. I rarely get to DC.
Oops, I just felt an earthquake here. You may read about us in Tomorrows news. Signing off and sending. The tremor has stopped now.
Rob Says:
America: From Freedom to Fascism by Aaron Russo
The film exposes how the men who own the US Federal Reserve also shape the “public opinion” of the nation via media suppression, obfuscation, misrepresentation, smear, and outright lies concerning the Income Tax, Supreme Court decisions, the 16th Amendment fraud, and the Internal Revenue Code.
But here’s the rub. The film is not fiction. It’s a documentary.
Keep feeding the Beast.
“A government big enough to supply you with all you need is also big enough to take all you have.” ~ Thomas Jefferson
Sibel Edmonds Says:
Here are the answers:
Actor: Cliff Robertson
Character: Higgins
Role: Deputy Director, CIA New York
Turner: “they’ve got all of it”
Higgins: “What did you do?”
Turner: “I told them a story, you play games, I told them a story”
Higgins: “Ah you, you poor dumb son of a bitch”, “You’ve done more damage than you know”
Turner: “I hope so”
Higgins: “You’re about to be a very lonely man”, “It didn’t have to end this way”
Turner: “Sure it did”
Higgins: “Hey Turner”, “How do you know they’ll print it?” “You can take a walk, but how far if they don’t print it?”
Turner: “They’ll print it”
Higgins: “How do you know?”
Erik & LLewis: You got it right!
We had some excellent recomm.s for movies: Network, Wag the Dog, 'V' for Vendetta, Siege, Good Night & Good Luck.
I truly enjoyed our 'TGIF Lite Post.' We'll try it again. If you can send me suggestions for 'lite' topics that in some way relate to what we are covering.
Anonymous Says:
That is a fantastic movie I was lucky to catch on TV one afternoon.
You could release that movie today and it would hold up no problem…
stevieb
Anonymous Says:
Max von Sydow is brilliant as a mercenary assassin with a ‘conscience’ – I love this movie.
Sibel – you are a wonderful inspiration – don’t let up and I hope you sleep well knowing how many friends you have out there….
Anonymous Says:
How about the Movie “Inside Man”?
the scen with Christopher Plummer in the bank..and on the table behind him when he is giving the money to Jody Foster is a picture of GH BUSH and Barbara…the money Jody is asking for is money that was a pay off for Nazi War Secrets.
now Movie 2.
JFK by Oliver Stone..early in the movie is a Picture of PEPSI..and a Banana company..what reminds us of Pepsi..now?? And what was one of the first companies/factories seized by Castro? Pepsi..
walk into a grocery store here in Fla and the whole set up of Pepsi has changed..they are placed in such a way it is hard to miss the O and the circle..it is almost erie. First time i noticed it a couple months ago i freaked..it was like total subliminal brainwashing…Right in your grocery store, theb i began noticing the billboard signs all over central Florida.
just a fyi
Sibel..i was a flight crew of one of the 9/11 airlines based in Ny….and i admire you and have followed you from early on…please stay safe!!
bh Says:
Hi Sibel,
Don't know if you'll get this way back here, but, you asked for other movie suggestions…
I finally saw a movie last night that I've wanted to see for awhile called: "State of Play" with Russel Crowe who plays a reporter (from my hometown Pittsburgh). EXCELLENT! It is not so loose take on Blackwater and the privatization of homeland security… really good.
bh
bh Says:
There are so many great movies in this vein. I'll try to think of a few more for you.
How about another Bobby Redfor flick called: "Sneakers" ?
bh Says:
And another Bob Redford as CIA agent with Brad Pitt in "Spy Game" ?
Maybe a slightly different take, but, still a good flick.
Or the more recent "The Good Shepard" with Matt Damon, Bobby De Niro, Angelina Jolie, Billy Crudup and a cameo by Joe Pesci…