Grossman Confirmed as FBI Target in Espionage Investigations
Sunday, 27. September 2009
Former FBI Official Confirms Buried Espionage & Corruption Cases
John M. Cole, a former FBI Counterintelligence and Counterespionage Manager, has publicly confirmed FBI’s decade long investigation of the former State Department Official. According to Cole, as in over one hundred cases involving Israeli espionage activities within the US government, this case too has been covered up and buried despite mountains of evidence collected.
Here is the public response from John Cole after the publication of The American Conservative magazine’s cover story:
“I read the recent cover story by The American Conservative magazine. I applaud their courage in publishing this significant interview. I am fully aware of the FBI’s decade-long investigation of the High-level State Department Official named in this article [Marc Grossman], which ultimately was buried and covered up. It is long past time to investigate this case and bring about accountability…”
In November 2006, in an article published by CQ on covered up espionage cases involving Israel, Cole was quoted extensively:
“John M. Cole, an FBI spy catcher who retired in 2004, says that from 1993 to 1995 alone, he had “125 open cases” of Israeli espionage, representing nearly half of all the investigations carried on in his Global Unit, part of the now-defunct National Security division.” Inside the FBI itself, Cole said, tracking suspected Israeli spies was hush-hush.In a sharp break with FBI procedures, he was prohibited from notifying field offices when an investigation crept into their jurisdictions. “No one was supposed to know we were investigating the Israelis,” Cole said.”
Stein’s article quoted several other FBI officials confirming Cole’s disclosure:
“The 125 figure “makes sense,” another former top FBI counterintelligence official said, speaking only on condition that he not be identified because of the issue’s sensitivity. This official called the Israeli embassy’s denials “horse [manure].” In fact, he said, U.S. officials repeatedly warned the Israelis to back off. But the finger-wagging only seemed to energize them. “We would call them in, call them on the carpet, and next week there would be 10 more cases,” he said. The Justice Department never seemed much interested in prosecuting them, he and other counterintelligence veterans said. Agents would get pissed off,” said the former top official. “We knew they were going to walk, that they were going to get a pass. . . . It was frustrating.””
John M. Cole, Former Veteran Intelligence Operations Specialist, worked for 18 years in the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division as an Intelligence Operations specialist and counterespionage manager. Cole is the author of While America Sleeps, which will be available in bookstores this November. He was recently our guest on The Boiling Frogs Show.
Coming Soon: Boiling Frogs exclusive interview with John M Cole on his upcoming book and latest revelations
Anonymous Says:
Sibel, here is a little flashback from 2001 re: UN dues. http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/08/world/senate-ends-bitter-dispute-with-the-un-on-us-dues.html
Anonymous Says:
I follow this up with the following (2009). Note votes against. http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/ga10841.doc.htm
JCarb Says:
Sibel, I see that Mr. Grossman currently serves as the Vice Chair of The Cohen Group. This is my favorite part. "In Turkey, he promoted security cooperation, human rights and democracy and a vibrant US-Turkish economic relationship".
http://www.cohengroup.net/about/teammember.cfm?id=5
JCarb Says:
Ran across this while doing research. Seems that Mr. Grossman and Joe Wilson, who is Valarie Plame's husband graduated from the same univerisity, and this piece makes the case that Marc Grossman and the Wilson's knew each other professionally. Don't know if this is good or bad, but I thought it to be interesting.
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/index.php/archives/1640
Sibel Edmonds Says:
JCarb: Grossman also works for 'IHLAS HOLDING,' A Turkish company. The newspapers in Turkey quoted '$100,000 per month' for Mr. Grossman's advisory position there…
The American Conservative Magazine Blog picked up this latest:
http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2009/09/28/and-its-not-only-sibel-edmonds-who-says-so/
Please help disseminate this before another FBI whistleblower is 'gagged' by DOJ. Thank You.
Sibel Edmonds Says:
JCarb: Wilson worked for ATC; on one of their board of advisots committee. Yes they were Univ. roommates & later 'professional' friends.
JCarb Says:
Well, I posted the article from your website on my FB page, and I put it on Freedomsphoenix.com, where I serve as an editor.
I very sad to report that Lew Rockwell isn't going to put your article on his page. It bothers me since on the top of his site, it states, "Anti-State, Anti-War, Pro-Market".
nunya Says:
I thought of you when I read this
“The experience has almost been the opposite so far on national security whistleblowers,” Devine said. “The administration has been close minded about giving them normal access to court.”
“Since their disclosures have been the most important exercise of freedom of speech, defending liberty from threats by your own government, that they are the most important whistleblowers to earn first class rights,” Devine said.
Mizgîn Says:
Wilson served as Chief of Mission, US Embassy Baghdad from 1988 to 1991. Grossman served as Deputy Chief of Mission US Embassy Ankara from 1989 to 1992.
I'm sure their paths must have crossed during this time period, too. And to think that Grossman outed Wilson's wife to the Turks . . . Too funny!
Anonymous Says:
Is Mr. Cole telling us, Zionist Occupied (or Infiltrated) Government is real? This is a Serious Question. Sincerely, ShaJ
Sibel Edmonds Says:
Mizgin: Totally agree. Wilson worked for ATC, while Grossman worked with/for ATC.
Kingfisher Says:
"Is Mr. Cole telling us, Zionist Occupied (or Infiltrated) Government is real? This is a Serious Question. Sincerely, ShaJ"
I doubt Mr. Cole would use that expression, or even subscribe to that theory.
The issues SA Cole is commenting are significant and hot button enough, without conflating it into overarching conspiracy theories (especially ones carrying an agenda).
KF
SanderO Says:
Lew Rockwell is not your friend.
Anonymous Says:
good old kingfisher. Keep us on the straight and narrow. Proof first. investigate. evidence based. nail it down. lets see where it goes.r
Mizgîn Says:
About Sibel's remark on Ihlas Holding . . .
Ihlas is a Fethullahci company, something that I mentioned back in 2006 when the Ralston conflict of interest was going on.
On Gulen's own website, Ihlas is acknowledged as "the most powerful 'cemaat holding.' Able to compete with the Turkish largest conglomerates, namely Sabanci and Koc. Ihlas is an immense company, especially present in publishing activities (books, newspapers, and magazines), construction, healthcare and education."
You would think with Grossman landing such a plum consultation job with Ihlas, that The Cohen Group, at least, would have crowed about it. But nothing is mentioned about Ihlas at The Cohen Group website, neither in press releases nor in Grossman's bio.
Now why is that?
T Says:
Hi Sibel,
Just got thru reading your article. And I'm curious about a few legal points.
If anyone you've named in this case decided to sue you for defamation, why take that risk? The ultimate defense is telling the truth. So far, no high-level reputable official has said you're lying. Which leaves them two options:
Take you to court and risk all the bad pr, humiliation and the rest of it.
Or, settle out of court for "an undisclosed amount".
That also leaves more potential federal prosecution? If the govt.'s dropped the State Secrets Order against you, what else could they bring against you?
Also, is it possible for foreign embassies within the States to sue private individuals? If I decided to sue an embassy official, they have diplomatic immunity, correct? Is the reverse possible?
Sorry if I'm getting into your conifdentiality with your attorney. Just curious.
T
Kingfisher Says:
@Mizgin,
This comment of yours is from another thread, but I am going to post it up front here so you see it:
"Obviously, Giraldi does believe that Sibel's story is genuine and that it's not made up and, as he acknowledges in the interview, he spent enough time listening to people in the course of his intelligence career to be able to evaluate who is spreading tales and who is genuine."
Giraldi served as deputy chief of base of Istanbul from 1986 to 1989; going through my chronology of the case I realized that this syncs with when Perle was ironing out the details on, and setting up IAI.
My guess is that he has intimate knowledge of the back-story here, was probably getting reports on it while it was happening. Probably wouldn’t/couldn’t say though.
John Francis Lee Says:
This is all very good work Sibel. Thank you for doing it, it certainly does need doing.
Anonymous Says:
Sibel, just a little off topic how are you coming along with the "new media projest". I came across this item and if true, Bloggers need to band together on this one. http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/13237/
Anonymous Says:
@KingFish Are you telling me a Conspiracy Theories are false? Watergate, Iran Contra, White Water, Teapot Dome ETC ETC all False? Sincerely,
ShaJ
Metem Says:
On our Mr. Perle, while I think George Galloway is a bit of a windbag I also have to admit I enjoy hearing him call out people like Norm Coleman and Perle publicly.
Kingfisher Says:
@ShaJ,
There is nothing theoretical about Watergate, Iran Contra, White Water, and Teapot Dome. These are all events and conspiracies (civil/criminal) that happened.
There is reason to believe that Grossman and others engaged in a criminal conspiracy; it would be a conspiracy theory to say he was part of a "Zionist Occupied Government".
One of these things is not like the other things: Watergate, Iran Contra, White Water, Zionist Occupied Government, Teapot Dome
KF
mmonk Says:
Mizgin: Funny, yet pretty sad (about Grossman outing Plame.
Anonymous Says:
Mizgin, here is some info on The Cohen Group. http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/firm_reports.php?year=2007&lname=Cohen+Group&id=
Kalim Kassam Says:
"I very sad to report that Lew Rockwell isn't going to put your article on his page. It bothers me since on the top of his site, it states, "Anti-State, Anti-War, Pro-Market"."
JCarb, watch the front page of LRC tomorrow.
Anonymous Says:
September 29:
Sibel's accusations about the Turkish lobby are briefly mentioned in a Miami Herald article:
"Fight between Turks, Armenians lands at Ohio elections panel"
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/1258393.html
Regards,
"Tom Joad"
JCarb Says:
Kalim, yes, he did print the interview. Sorry Mr. Rockwell.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/giraldi2.1.1.html
Anonymous Says:
Anon the Neocon-
Please, who is Mr. Cole? He has been co-authoring articles with Mrs. Edmonds for half a decade now.
I guess this sheds light on Mrs. Edmond's revelations – it made no sense that she would be privy to intercepts of Grossman – in fact, she was privy to Mr. Cole's imagination.
That Wilson and Grossman are friends, only surprises those who believe Edmond's charges of government corruption.
The conspiracy theory is beginning to make sense.
Anne Says:
Hi everyone,
I have an extra angle that I want to add to the "conspiracy theory," and I'm wondering if anyone here can help me. There's a long-forgotten news story that came out just before 9/11 that continues to bother me to this day, especially as I read more and more of Sibel's disclosures. I think this is a very important story that has been blocked and covered up. Here's the best MSM article available:
Wall St.'s Soldier of Fortune – Kevin Ingram
He was a high-flying trader with a taste for flashy cars, pretty women, and fast cash. But when Kevin Ingram turned his WorldTrade Center office into a money laundromat for alleged arms dealers, not even his powerful friends could save him–especially after the name Osama bin Laden came out in the wash.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KNK/is_3_3/ai_80206454/?tag=content;col1
I highly recommend that you read the whole article. It contains as much disinformation as information, but the story that emerges is quite interesting and clearly much bigger than the impression the article tries to give. Another telltale sign is that the story has been systematically distorted and covered up by the MSM.
I've been doing some research on my own, and I've pulled together a lot more of the story than appears in this article. I'll be happy to share whatever I have with anyone who is interested.
I think that this reveals a key part of the global criminal network that has thusfar avoided exposure, and which ultimately links all of this foreign agent stuff with our current "financial crisis." Anyone interested in comparing notes?
-Anne
Kingfisher Says:
"Please, who is Mr. Cole? He has been co-authoring articles with Mrs. Edmonds for half a decade now.
I guess this sheds light on Mrs. Edmond's revelations – it made no sense that she would be privy to intercepts of Grossman – in fact, she was privy to Mr. Cole's imagination."
@Anon the Neocon,
Mr. Cole has served our country for 20+ years; calling him a liar and offering no supporting argument is contemptible, Anon.
You keep making the “she’s just an interpreter” argument. Again, as has been stated before she was briefed into the investigation. There is an assumption that interpreters in intel work just do rote translation; this is not the case, context needs to be provided to them.
You are also making the assumption that Grossman doesn’t speak Turkish. As a career foreign service officer who was Ambassador to Turkey for 3 years and the embassy’s Deputy Chief of Mission for another 3 before that, it would not be illogical for him to speak Turkish.
KF
Kingfisher Says:
@Anne,
Ingram is connected to a securities fraud investigation that I’ve worked on.
My email is thekingfisher1 [at] gmail [dot] com
KF
Anonymous Says:
http://www.upi.com/Security_Industry/2009/05/05/Raytheon-picks-Roketsan-in-Turkey-as-Patriot-missile-partner/UPI-17561241538687/
Anonymous Says:
http://dprogram.net/2009/09/30/video-carl-cameron-supports-questioning-911/
Anonymous Says:
Merkel on Turkey joining EU http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1238942822.84
Anonymous Says:
Armenia Turkey ties. http://en.rian.ru/world/20090930/156303757.html
Metem Says:
@Anne
I seem to remember something about a man involved in some shady dealings that had some ties to both terrorism and the WTC just before 911. I don't remember the name but seems like it was probably the same guy. I remember seeing something about it in either a documentary or a news report I watched. Most likely documentary but I can't remember which one. I've watched so many. Any ideas there? I'd love to hear anything else you'd like to share. You'd be welcome to email me as well but I don't have any info on this to offer in return. You can get my email by clicking on my name.
Anonymous Says:
Israel takes delivery of 2 dolphin class, nuclear missile capable submarines from Germany today. http://jta.org/news/article/2009/09/30/1008232/german-subs-delivered-to-israel
Anne Says:
@KF:
Yes, I'm aware of Ingram's involvement in securities fraud, and possibly HUD fraud as well. At the time Ingram was implicated in arms trafficking, he was involved in some very questionable business dealings that involved major wall street banks and NJ gov. Jon Corzine. He was also funneling large political contributions to Corzine's senate campaign and Jesse Jackson.
Here's a description of the ATF sting that snared Ingram and some of his other "business" associates:
"[International diamond broker turned ATF informant Randy] Glass called a meeting with Diaa Mohsen… A former Olympic long-jumper who speaks nine languages, Mohsen had been a US. citizen for 30 years; he claimed to be a lumber and commodities broker…Glass told Mohsen he knew army-base people who could supply him with artillery. Court papers say that Mohsen eagerly inquired about howitzers, grenade launchers, and surface-to-air missiles, and even asked if Glass could get hold of an MR2020, a nuclear-weapon component. The ATF affidavit says that Mohsen told Glass that a friend of Mohsen's–Mohammed "Mike" Malik–was negotiating with an [ISI Agent] who was seeking arms on behalf of [Pakistan]. According to court papers, Mohsen says this individual wondered whether Glass would accept heroin as partial payment…"
Note: All of these men donated money to John Corzine's senate campaign, and Mike Malik was actually a player in local New Jersey politics.
When the corporate media reported on this case, they bent over backwards to portray Ingram's arms trafficking and money laundering as something completely unrelated to his other "legitimate" business activities. I don't buy that for a second. The question is, how exactly do they relate to each other?
If we can answer that question, I think we've added a whole new layer to the organized crime operations that Sibel has been describing.What I really want to know is which investment bank Ingram was working for from 1999-2001? The media says he was out on his own, but I don't believe it. Do you happen to know, KF?
Anne Says:
I'm going to just throw out some of the information I've gathered on the Ingram case in the hope that someone here can help me fill in the holes. If you're not interested, just ignore. Thanks!
There is very little information available about the details of Ingram’s money laundering scheme. Here is what I’ve been able to compile:
"Ingram took his first meeting with Glass and Mohsen at the World Trade Center in June 1999, according to an ATF affidavit…There is a memo from this period outlining Ingram's plan for the "IAM Global Money Fund"–Ingram detailed how the crew might start a $30-million fund outside of government regulation."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KNK/is_3_3/ai_80206454/pg_9/?tag=content;col1
"According to the government, by June 1999, using his account, Ingram Partners L.L.C. at Chase Bank, Mr. Ingram agreed to launder money — for a fee of 9 percent of each transaction….In a meeting with Mr. Mohsen and an undercover agent, court documents state, Mr. Ingram took $100,000 in cash, keeping $9,000 for himself and later returning a check for $91,000 drawn on the account of Ingram Partners. Then, in August, he agreed to launder $250,000 in cash using wire transfers to London, keeping $22,500.
Two years later…Mr. Ingram was told they needed to launder over $16 million, $2 million of that in the weeks ahead.Mr. Ingram…said, he was more interested in ''long-term transactions'' — he had proposed earlier becoming a money manager for the arms traders using offshore accounts."
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/27/business/from-riches-to-relative-rags.html?scp=2&sq=&pagewanted=2
“Depositing a couple of million in a bank account would attract attention, so Kapij and Ingram were to rent a plane in Boca Raton and fly the money to Holland, where it would shuffle through enough foreign bank accounts until it seemed to disappear. After the transfer, Stoltz was to deliver the missiles and other goods to the New Jersey businessmen, who would ship the stuff to Pakistan.”
http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2003-07-10/news/gunning-for-profit/5
“In January 2001 Malik and the middlemen began arranging for $32 million to be sent to Florida from a bank in Dubai for a series of arms deals, arrangements U.S. agents confirmed by electronic eavesdropping. …The buyers insisted on using convoluted fund transfer methods that they hoped would allow them to secure the return of the money if the deal soured.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A33797-2002Aug1?language=printer
Question: Is this "global money fund" idea somehow related to the work Ingram was doing at Deutsche Bank?
"At Deutsche Bank, Ingram and his team of 45 professionals structure and issue mortgage-backed securities for an international clientele, including banks, insurance companies, and high net-worth individuals. These deals can range from $1 million to several billion dollars. Already in his short tenure, Ingram has helped engineer a $500 million transaction for Fannie Mae, and a $100 million securitized first mortgage loan for Host Marriott, the first such transaction involving a hotel to gain investment-grade credit ratings."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1365/is_n3_v27/ai_18727233/pg_7/?tag=content;col1
Kingfisher Says:
@Anne,
What is the reason to suspect his legitimate activities are related to his criminal activities or at least the arms trafficking? Likewise, what is it that makes you suspect he was working for an investment bank from 1999-2001?
KF
dentring Says:
@Anne,
Oops, your additional post, which answers part of my question, went up as I was typing a reply.
Kingfisher Says:
Sorry, the above was me. 'dentring' was the word verification.
Kingfisher Says:
"Question: Is this "global money fund" idea somehow related to the work Ingram was doing at Deutsche Bank?"
How do you mean related? Like connected to DB somehow, or like the proposed fund would trade in MBS (the kind of work he was doing at DB)?
My understanding is that his departure from DB was very ugly and included: lawsuits, Jesse Jackson, a multi-million dollar settlement, and charges of ‘racism’.
Anonymous Says:
@Kingfish, How about ZSOG Zionist Spied On Government? (Water)gate, Iran (No "Water" i.e. Desert) Contra, White (Water), (Tea)pot Dome, Zionist Occupied Government. ZOG is not like the others.
Kingfisher Says:
"@Kingfish, How about ZSOG Zionist Spied On Government? (Water)gate, Iran (No "Water" i.e. Desert) Contra, White (Water), (Tea)pot Dome, Zionist Occupied Government. ZOG is not like the others."
Yes it is ZOG because it is not like the others. Why is it not like the others? Because they were actual events and criminal conspiracies, whereas ZOG is a theory of a conspiracy.
I seem to have lost you somewhere, why don’t you explain to me what you think Zionist Occupied Government is.
Mizgîn Says:
Anonymous, thanks for the Open Secrets link to TCG. It's nice to see they have links to the Senate's LDA documentation. I noticed one company on the list called "ProtectingAmerica.org". In checking out what it is that organization does, I noticed one of the national co-chairs is James M. Loy. Loy is a "senior counselor" for TCG. He's also on the board of Lockheed, along with his other pal from TCG, Joseph Ralston.
How cosy!!
TCG would be the perfect example to use if anyone were interested in exploring the revolving door between the government/military and the corporate world. The same filthy dirtbags keep turning up again and again and again. Sibel addressed this issue back in 2006.
Kingfisher, yes, according to Giraldi himself he was in Istanbul at that time. However, my point was that a person wouldn't need to have any intimate knowledge, or intel, on what goes on in Turkey. You just have to be there and watch what's going on around you and in the media. If you know about Susurluk and Gladio, Ciller's government and the Dirty War, you know how things are done in Turkey and you recognize those same things in Sibel's story.
Susurluk has never been properly investigated. Until it is, there won't be a proper investigation into Ergenekon. In spite of the trials that are ongoing in Ergenekon, it is cosmetics only.
Thinking about all this reminds me that another Susurluk player is in the US–Mehmet Eymur. Eymur's boy was Mahmut Yildirim–Yesil. For a long time the Ankara regime refused to admit the existence of Yesil. Now it does admit Yesil's existence but claims he's dead. I bet he's not dead; he's probably somewhere in the US, with a "yesil card".
Anonymous Says:
Anon the Neocon
@KF
Cole: supposed 20 years + experience, minor bureaucrat.
Grossman: known 30 + experience, major player
Who had access to more info? Who has greater credibility? Who is Mr. Cole? We know nothing about him, other than his co-authorship with Edmonds, and claims about his past service unchecked.
Mrs. Edmonds harps on about transparency, but what do we know about her, and Mr. Cole?
We know nothing about her work in Russia, and fluency in Russian. She discloses as little as possible. Mr. Cole, even worst.
Does Grossman speak Turkish? One would hope so.
I think the AmCon piece made it public to everyone that FBI interpreters are briefed. But Mrs. Edmonds is evasive – refuses to even acknowledge – what her sources are. I already asked my questions point blank previously – not one was answered.
When I say the story is becoming clear – its this: Mrs. Edmonds wasn't briefed on Grossman, at any point whatsoever. Nor does she suggest this. In fact, she is carefully using Cole's information, in a way that most readers wont raise questions about.
I am suggesting Cole is flat out wrong. He doesnt' have the credibility, and I don't see why Kingfisher needs to give it to him.
I know it's so easy to pick on the Israelis…especially when everyone is clueless, about the Turks, Japs, Ruskies, and Hondurans…
Anonymous Says:
Israeli diplomat expelled (flees) russia for espionage. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1254383195719&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Anonymous Says:
@jcarb
FYI http://www.mainebiz.biz/news45204.html
Kingfisher Says:
@Anon the Neocon
"Does Grossman speak Turkish? One would hope so.
I think the AmCon piece made it public to everyone that FBI interpreters are briefed. But Mrs. Edmonds is evasive – refuses to even acknowledge – what her sources are. I already asked my questions point blank previously – not one was answered."
The Grossman speaking Turkish comment had to do with your asinine "it made no sense that she would be privy to intercepts of Grossman" comment.
Sibel is not going to acknowledge what her sources are; intelligence sources and methods, it is something she cant get into – the one no-no in all this.
But USE YOUR BRAIN for a second! If Grossman speaks Turkish, and calls someone being monitored; who do you think would be monitoring the intercept?!
"I am suggesting Cole is flat out wrong. He doesnt' have the credibility, and I don't see why Kingfisher needs to give it to him."
In that case you would support the government reviewing the case files Sibel and Cole cite to ascertain whether there is veracity to their claims once and for all.
If you are so convinced that they are fabricating all this then you would support that, end of story. If you wouldn't support that then you are a sally who just likes to go around bitching on the internet.
If you think John and Sibel are "dead wrong", call their bluff then. Period.
"I know it's so easy to pick on the Israelis…especially when everyone is clueless, about the Turks, Japs, Ruskies, and Hondurans…"
Oohhh, are the mean people picking on poor little Israel? Poor baby!
Listen to yourself, you sound just like those sissy liberals you are always bemoaning and puffing your chest about. Pathetic.
KF
Anonymous Says:
Reason does not work with Mr. Anon the Neocon. He has a sense of humor as I once noted in a literary post and observed his reply. In Ireland the bards wrote verse, with rhyme and meter, but that is beyond my skill. I have composed this poem to Mr. Neocon:
There was a man named Neocon
Thought he was Israel's cure
Said what was sure
But then was always Anon
Now Mr. Neocon felt he must say
Israel is not in the way
Sure he really wanted to play
Go away, make my day
Banned by Sibel for rude and crude
He laid low for a little doe
Said to himself, I'm not gonna go
So here he is again, whadda ya know
Same old spume of vitriol
plays it like a bad viol
Hey dude, facts are dark
when spoke by a shark
Can you feel the pulse
Shadow man is Neocon
He lurks in the dark
'cause he's really a shark
We'll puff him up with fluff
Make him Big Stuff
I really think he's an evader
Much like Darth Vader
Simon
Anonymous Says:
while you two take a breather, and in light of the discussion involving information flow and various forms of 'control', please consider this.
[The Hon Judge hearing the NYCCAN petition to have new 911 investigation quote OPED today]
The Judge proceeded to invite discourse on why an investigation was needed. When McMahon raised as an example the 9/11 Commission's omission of the collapse of Building 7 from its final report, the Judge replied in puzzlement, "Building what?"
When asked by the Judge whether or not there has been an investigation into 9/11 by New York City authorities, Steve Kitzinger, the City's lawyer, replied, "It's irrelevant", to which the packed courtroom was loudly disdainful, some openly laughing in disbelief. At which point Mr. Kitzinger prevailed upon Judge Lehner to quiet the crowd, which the Judge did.
With order restored, the Judge again asked Kitzinger if the City had done anything to investigate 9/11. Kitzinger flatly responded, "No."
"The City never did anything?" retorted the Judge in disbelief. "Nothing, Kitzinger admitted.
Building what??
rm
Sibel Edmonds Says:
Simon: You made my day; I'm still chuckling. Thanks!
Doug Canuck Says:
Day 2 of the Schmidt vs Krikorian case being live blogged over at the Daily Kos
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/1/125946/764?new=true
Very good vid from the 1st day ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En7HhLV4oIA
Anonymous Says:
@KingFish, What do you call a Government filled with Zionist (Not Jewish) Spies? Sincerely, ShaJ
Sibel Edmonds Says:
Doug Canuck: Thanks for the link. Krikorian will appeal. Amazing Kangaroo Court Session!
Anonymous Says:
Turkey-Iraq water resource issue http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/KJ02Ak03.html
Doug Canuck Says:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/1/125946/764?new=true
"UPDATE 17: OEC has accepted excerpts of the Edmonds testimony proffered by the Krikorian team."
It would be interesting to know what parts of Sibels deposition were allowed !
Anonymous Says:
Sibel Edmonds… if anyone had the time to weed through her deposition and do some research I'm sure they would find out what motivates the crazy bitch. After 10/15 I'm thinking I may want to be the one that takes a huge dump on her parade.
Anonymous Says:
Anon the Neocon-
I understand that concern with transparency only goes one way. All forms of secrecy by the government on behalf of the American people are illegitimate.
All forms of secrecy on the part of Mrs. Edmonds and her Russian intelligence operation against America, are applauded and cheered.
You can pick sides, or you can user muster just a wee-bit of skepticism. Or am I now being insulting and need to be kicked off?
I understand if we have another double-standard here – ad hominems at Anon the Neocon = Bravo, retorts of the same against groupies = censored?
I hope not. Although yes, I am rather persistent in asking for proof of commitment to democracy – rather than vague rhetoric against a "prison state".
As for "asinine" – KG – I put the IQ threshold at 120 for a simple reason – there are those who read, and understand where what cometh- and those who just puff and pronounce.
I can care less about the name of Mrs. Edmond's debriefer – and I wrongly assumed, you'd understand that, as I assumed you were beyond ad hominems. Alas, you prove me wrong. Thanks?
I wrote my list of basic questions on her original AmCon announcement on this blog. The one with the nearly 90 comments. If I need to repaste something so trite, I will.
Not once did I intend to ask the name of an FBI source. I merely wanted specifications, i.e. – this is from debriefing, this is form Cole. Apparently everything comes from Cole, and amounts to perverted anti-Semitic nonsense with no basis in fact. But I somehow doubt Mrs. Edmond's has been had by her "sources".
I initially mentioned 120 IQ because of Mizgin's obvious inability to differentiate between believing someone's allegations, and them being true. I didn't think it was worth the effort to explain this in more basic terms. Nor did I dare insult anyone by going to the average of 102 – that I would not accord readers here, since they all seem to be extremely smart.
Another ad hominem?…ok, let's get "liberal" on one another, eh?
Am I being a spineless liberal by playing the Israeli victim card?
I am not playing any card. It is obvious that everyone here suspects Israel, without any logical reason whatsoever. Just a form of visceral anti-semitims, camouflaging as "anti-Israel" mumbo jumbo. Yes, blame the Jews, since there is no proof, it's even greater proof!!!
What do you call something this irrational?
Pointing out an obvious prejudice, isn't done to earn me any endearment from you. It's done so you can widen your horizons, and go a little beyond, just a tiny bit beyond your blinders.
Absence of Proof, may not be proof of absence, but Mrs. Edmond's does go a long way to play cat-and-mouse, pretending to be things she is not, and making claims she cannot substantiate.
Her proclivity towards secrecy and obfuscation, is far grander than that of those whom she accuses of it. It's really the pot calling the kettle black.
We know nothing about this "Sibyl," (of which "Sibel" is a variant) nor Mr. Cole, nor any of the Whistleblower gangsters…nor nothing about Ghirardi.
At least politicians have to make public disclosures. What do you guys have to make.
Sure, I am Anon – but that's my nature – I am not hiding anything – I AM nothing. A simple nobody. If you write me a poem – good for you – but I am hardly worth it. A simple nobody with a real faith in your freedom to speak, be wrong, be right. Freedom to ask questions, and answer, or refuse to answer. A freedom, for which I know who to thank.
Mrs. Edmonds implies, that some of these people, are really scum. I find that discouraging, given her inability to for one second entertain, that she doesn't understand the game, is out of her league, and if she isn't deliberately hurting this country, then she needs a good hard look in the mirror and question some of her conclusions, before she goes off on another "prison-state" tirade on the basis of a few words from Cole and Ghirardeli.
Anonymous Says:
Anon the Neocon-
For fear of being accused of evasiveness I the Anonymous Ass (asinine) address two questions that I was asked by KG:
1) Grossman and speaking Turkish.
I think your assumption KG reveals the depth of the problem here. Why you'd assume what you assume, is pretty clear.
Any FBI investigation of any damn person violates others privacy, doesn't it?
Now if you are saying that Grossman was caught in the cross hairs of something, because he happened to be a liason for DoS or anyone else, and this you call an "investigation" that's precisely why I ask questions, while …well…some of you don't.
I wont belabor it, suffice it to say, if Mr. Cole feeds Mrs. Edmonds "investigations" that never took place, your story falls apart as the house of silly imaginings that it is.
2) Investigate the claim by Cole and Edmonds?
Why?
Would you have us investigate every UFO claim? Every claim of ZOG conspiracy? Everything Alex Jones says on his TV show?
Why should we waste tax-payers money on a concocted issue, which has the signs of a foreign intelligence activity against the United States, because of a few people who are careless with their job oaths, or maligning American democracy to make a few bucks?
Give me a good reason?
Anne Says:
@KF:
"What is the reason to suspect his legitimate activities are related to his criminal activities or at least the arms trafficking?"
I wish there was some way I could give you a short and easy answer to that question. The main starting point is the way the mainstream media reported on the case. I mean, it's really pretty bizaare… As far as MSM disinformation and cover-ups go, I've never seen anything so sloppy and obvious. They didn't even get the facts straight between themselves. I'll provide links to the coverage so that you can see for yourself. I think every single one of these articles reports a different version of the facts in the case:
NY Times: “Former Rising Star on Wall Street Is Arrested in Arms Sale Inquiry,” 6/16/01 (approximately 2 ½ months before 9/11)
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/06/16/nyregion/16GUNS.html
NY Observer, “Ex-Goldman Trader Stung in Arms Plot, Shocks Colleagues,” 7/1/01
http://www.observer.com/node/44662
NY Observer: “Kevin Ingram Pal Questioned About bin Laden,” 9/20/01
http://www.observer.com/node/45026
NY Times: “From Riches to Relative Rags,” 10/27/01
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/27/business/from-riches-to-relative-rags.html?scp=2&sq=&pagewanted=2
Bnet: “Wall St.'s Soldier of Fortune – Kevin Ingram,” 11/01
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KNK/is_3_3/ai_80206454/?tag=content;col1
Article: From ARMs to Arms: Former Goldman, Deutsche MBS executive nabbed in arms scheme.(Kevin Ingram ) Investment Dealers' Digest; June 25, 2001
http://www.kycnews.com/message_board_detail.asp?id=16142&page=93
The Jersey Journal : “Details Emerge About Players in Arms Probe,” 6/20/01
http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/jerseyjournal062001.html
http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/index.ssf?/news/jjournal/arms20.html
Broward Palm Beach New Times: “Gunning for Profit,” 7/10/03
http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/2003-07-10/news/gunning-for-profit/5
Sunday Business (London, England): “City high-flyer in arms scandal,” 7/8/01
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-76368385.html
They're obviously scrambling to cover something up. The question then becomes, what is it?
Anne Says:
@KF:
"My understanding is that his departure from DB was very ugly and included: lawsuits, Jesse Jackson, a multi-million dollar settlement, and charges of ‘racism’"
The "offical" narrative of the story goes something like this: Kevin Ingram is a big time bond trader at Goldman Sachs, and then in 1996 moves to Deutsche Bank to head up their mortgage desk. In early 1998, he's promoted to one of the "top five" executive positions at the bank and moves to London. Then, sometime in 1998 or 1999, he's forced out. He thinks it's because of racism, so he brings in Jesse Jackson and files a lawsuit against DB. DB files a countersuit against him. Somehow they reach a settlement and Ingram leaves with a ton of money. However, this story doesn't even begin to stand up to scrutiny.
1) Most of the media outlets reported some version of this story in 2001, but none of them reported the same version. They all contradict each other with regard to the date Ingram (allegedly) left DB, the reason he was asked to leave, exactly what Jesse Jackson's role was, and the details of the settlement negotiations.
2) Ingram was arrested in the arms sting in June of 2001. EVERY single news article that reported this Jesse Jackson story came out AFTER his 2001 arrest. I've spent hours on google, and I can say with confidence that not a single word of this story was reported in 1998-1999 when it allegedly happened.
So, we're supposed to believe that Ingram was promoted to one of the "top five" executive positions at Deutsche in 1998, was forced out in a matter of months, sued DB for racial discrimination with the help of Jesse Jackson, was countersued by DB, left with a multimillion dollar settlement, and yet NONE OF THIS was reported in ANY of the financial media at the time? Go look for yourself. Try to google the lawsuit.
From 1998-1999, the mainstream press reported plenty of stories about Deutche Bank and the various comings and goings of DB executives, and yet there's not a single story that even MENTIONS Kevin Ingram.
I call B.S. Based on the contradictory media accounts and the lack of pre-2001 reporting, I'm convinced that this entire narrative was constructed after the fact, and I have serious doubts that there's any truth to it at all. Why would the media make something like this up? In my opinion, it was done as damage control for certain powerful people who were at risk of being implicated in the activities Ingram was involved in.
Anne Says:
@KF:
There is a lot to the Ingram story that has never been reported. This is clear from some of the tapes from the ATF sting that were broadcast in a (heavily censored and w/ much misdirection) MSNBC broadcast. Just from the excerpts played on the air, it’s obvious that some people in very high places are implicated in this case, and that we haven’t gotten anything close to the full story.
1) A warehouse full of weapons in Italy.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) It was the spring of 1999. Mohamed el Amir explains that he wants false papers that would identify a shipment of weapons as vegetables.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) But you're talking about, they–they–they're saying they want to ship vegetables, right? Is what they want–is what they want on the paperwork, correct?
Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) Yep.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) Listen, my phone line is secure. And so I'm just going to talk very open with you, OK?
Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) Yep.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) OK. They want to ship things like tanks, correct?
Mr. EL AMIR: (From tape) No, no, no, no, just ammunition, not tanks.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2002/msnbc080202.html
Interesting note: Mohamed El Amir is the brother of Magdy El Amir, a prominent New Jersey doctor. El Amir’s HMO was sued by the State of New Jersey to recoup $16.7 million in losses. At least $5.7 million went “to unknown parties… by means of wire transfers to bank accounts where the beneficial owner of the account is unknown.”
Even more interesting note: El Amir’s defense lawyer in the case was Michael Chertoff.
http://www.gnn.tv/articles/article.php?id=1089
Anne Says:
2) Passport fraud :
“Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) You know, I have a special passport I travel with.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) What do you mean, a special passport?
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) I have a passport. I enter any (word censored by station) country and be protected.
***RED FLAG: What word did MSNBC censor in the above sentence, and what was their reason for doing so?
Mr. GLASS: So right away I picked up on that. And I say, 'Well, wait a second, you can get different passports that you can travel to other countries?' He said, 'Sure, do you need one?' I said…
Mr. GLASS: 'Yes. Can you get me one?'
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And sure enough, a few weeks later, Randy Glass got a package in the mail, a Venezuelan passport with his photo. Was it legit?
***HMM: A Venezuelan passport? Seems very politically convenient…
Mr. GLASS: Yes, it was, it was an actual.
HANSEN: A legitimate Venezuelan passport?
Mr. GLASS: Complete with an exit stamp, as if I had been in Venezuela and had left.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2002/msnbc080202.html
According to an article in the Palm Beach Post, Di Mohsen “brought in Alfonso Pimentel, who has been indicted on passport fraud in the case.”
http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2002/palmbeachpost011202.html
So, who is Alfonso Pimentel, and why did the media blackout his indictment?
Anne Says:
3) MSNBC censors identity of terrorists:
HANSEN: (Voiceover) And then Glass's contact tells him where the potential customers can be found.
(Photo of Mohsen and Glass)
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) I'll take you to the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
HANSEN: (Voiceover) Finally, he confirms just what kind of people he's dealing with.
(Footage of terrorist training camp)
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) You know these (word censored by station) people, they are terrorists.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) So these are terrorists?
Mr. MOHSEN: (From tape) Sure.
Mr. GLASS: (From tape) That's wonderful.
The most important questions of all: Who ARE the terrorists? And just why is MSNBC protecting them?
http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2002/msnbc080202.html
Anonymous Says:
Whoa there Aneocon.
You propose the notion that all this is a massive Russian intelligence operation, with Sibel Edmonds lead actor. Then you charge the forum with 'anit-semitism.
First. I havn't read ONE indicator of Russian flags in any of this. Got any proof 'they' are THAT clever or are you just laying some smoke.
If the discussion threads fly certain flags, that's because they most likely do. Or will be [hopefully] proved not to. But they are THERE. They POINT.
Two, the semitic peoples range far and wide and deep across the world and thru history anyway. 'They' include Jewish peoples, Arab peoples, Syrian peoples, ancient Phoenicians, Carthaginians and Assyrians.
If I am told a group of young men caught rejoicing in a car park while 3000 people die before them in a conflagration: are arrested, then within 4 or 5 days released and fly back to a country of origin, where they appear on tv stating their role was to 'record the event', I didn't choose their identity nor the colour of their flag. Stick with it. If information regarding origins of technologies , spywares, interoperability micro-chips, phone company recordings,influence peddling, false flag attacks on foreign naval ships, blackmail, murder, trace ownership back thru avenues and doors of this person or that, to countries or armies or groups, WHERE EVER 'they' source, I didn't choose the points of origin nor the history that got us here, nor the mandate to remain. Investigate them.
Get to why the bolts fail.
rm
Anonymous Says:
I'm guessing someone spent half an hour playing around with something like this –
http://www.gadling.com/2009/03/30/gadling-teaches-you-to-read-the-cyrillic-alphabet-in-5-minutes/
and all of a sudden their ability to tell you what the sign says is interpreted by the all-knowing spies of the world to be an amazing superhuman power indicating covert russo ries.
You too, with practice, can reach the intelligence level of a sixteen year old with initiative.
Keep it up.
Anonymous Says:
Anon the Neocon
@Anonymous – puerility at its best.
Mrs. Edmonds is intimately familiar with Russia, where she worked for several years. She has beginner language skills.
Jade Says:
The Cohen Group lists DLA Piper on its Website as a partner. Any reason to suspect that Dick Armey & Co. over at DLA Piper are also in on the treasonous activities that you've revealed, Sibel? (Dick Armey headed up DLA Piper from 2003-2009. He stepped down after Rachel Maddow exposed Armey's and Freedom Works' attempts to kill health care reform.)