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	<title>Comments on: Charlie Wilson’s War is a Fantasy!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/</link>
	<description>Politics, Civil Liberties, Media, Editorial, Activism</description>
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		<title>By: mcthorogood</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4035</link>
		<dc:creator>mcthorogood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 20:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4035</guid>
		<description>@SanderO

&lt;i&gt;Hence we have all the sensationalist pop culture nonsense which dominates the news, dumbing down the public and providing cover for wrong doers. The fifth estate is no longer doing its watchdog function.&lt;/i&gt;

I think that you mean the &quot;Fourth Estate&quot; which is the press. I couldn&#039;t agree with you more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@SanderO</p>
<p><i>Hence we have all the sensationalist pop culture nonsense which dominates the news, dumbing down the public and providing cover for wrong doers. The fifth estate is no longer doing its watchdog function.</i></p>
<p>I think that you mean the &#8220;Fourth Estate&#8221; which is the press. I couldn&#8217;t agree with you more.</p>
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		<title>By: SanderO</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4032</link>
		<dc:creator>SanderO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 15:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4032</guid>
		<description>There is no compelling reason for the US to be involved in Afghanistan other than economic exploitation.  Afghanistan is not a threat to the USA or would any band of troublemakers now termed &quot;terrorists&quot;.  That&#039;s complete hooey and anyone who believes we have to spend trillions and wage this war is hopelessly naive.

War is usually about making money and this is no exception.

Who makes the money?  All the corporations which produce the products of war... and a few bits go to the wages of the men and women who fight and die and work in the war factories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no compelling reason for the US to be involved in Afghanistan other than economic exploitation.  Afghanistan is not a threat to the USA or would any band of troublemakers now termed &#8220;terrorists&#8221;.  That&#8217;s complete hooey and anyone who believes we have to spend trillions and wage this war is hopelessly naive.</p>
<p>War is usually about making money and this is no exception.</p>
<p>Who makes the money?  All the corporations which produce the products of war&#8230; and a few bits go to the wages of the men and women who fight and die and work in the war factories.</p>
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		<title>By: Kingfisher</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4030</link>
		<dc:creator>Kingfisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 05:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4030</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;To continue the thought of Kinfisher’s last sentence “and therefore since some totally unrelated people used it as such before us, it’s totally not our fault that we’re doing it now.”&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
Plenty of blame to go around for Afghanistan’s bloody history, foreign and local.  It would however be a very superficial read of history to view America’s role as anymore than on single chapter in a large anthology.  History plays such a prevailing role in the region and we are but a cog in an enormous wheel over there; something usually lost on the arrogance of the neoconservatives or the guilt of the liberals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;To continue the thought of Kinfisher’s last sentence “and therefore since some totally unrelated people used it as such before us, it’s totally not our fault that we’re doing it now.”&#8221;</i><br />
Plenty of blame to go around for Afghanistan’s bloody history, foreign and local.  It would however be a very superficial read of history to view America’s role as anymore than on single chapter in a large anthology.  History plays such a prevailing role in the region and we are but a cog in an enormous wheel over there; something usually lost on the arrogance of the neoconservatives or the guilt of the liberals.</p>
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		<title>By: Konstantin</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4029</link>
		<dc:creator>Konstantin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 03:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4029</guid>
		<description>Seems it was made by the John Birch Society so ... However I&#039;ve seen another video about the Serbian concentration camp that implies it was a fake and there was no concentration camp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems it was made by the John Birch Society so &#8230; However I&#8217;ve seen another video about the Serbian concentration camp that implies it was a fake and there was no concentration camp.</p>
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		<title>By: Konstantin</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4027</link>
		<dc:creator>Konstantin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4027</guid>
		<description>I wrote that comment before I saw the whole documentary so it&#039;s not that I&#039;m endorsing it. Just has some interesting parts like the scene about the report about a concentration camp in Bosnia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote that comment before I saw the whole documentary so it&#8217;s not that I&#8217;m endorsing it. Just has some interesting parts like the scene about the report about a concentration camp in Bosnia.</p>
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		<title>By: Konstantin</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4026</link>
		<dc:creator>Konstantin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 02:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4026</guid>
		<description>Somewhat off-topic.

Saw this in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/45370.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lew Rockwell blog titled &#039;The Documentary Film Mother Lode&#039;&lt;/a&gt;. It talks about a site that showcases free documentaries online called Top Documentary Films. website: &lt;a href=&quot;http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/watch-online&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/watch-online&lt;/a&gt;

This particular one is somewhat interesting. Don&#039;t know if everything is accurate but it has some interesting allegations like how the media is kept under control or manufactured.

It&#039;s called &#039;Behind The Big News: Propaganda and the CFR&#039;

The acyual video is hosted on Google videos and you can download it via the &#039;Download video&#039; link on the google page. 
Here&#039;s the link:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6632255652046262625&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6632255652046262625&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somewhat off-topic.</p>
<p>Saw this in the <a href="http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/45370.html" rel="nofollow">Lew Rockwell blog titled &#8216;The Documentary Film Mother Lode&#8217;</a>. It talks about a site that showcases free documentaries online called Top Documentary Films. website: <a href="http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/watch-online" rel="nofollow">http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/watch-online</a></p>
<p>This particular one is somewhat interesting. Don&#8217;t know if everything is accurate but it has some interesting allegations like how the media is kept under control or manufactured.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s called &#8216;Behind The Big News: Propaganda and the CFR&#8217;</p>
<p>The acyual video is hosted on Google videos and you can download it via the &#8216;Download video&#8217; link on the google page.<br />
Here&#8217;s the link:<br />
<a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6632255652046262625" rel="nofollow">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6632255652046262625</a></p>
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		<title>By: edit_mommies</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4023</link>
		<dc:creator>edit_mommies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4023</guid>
		<description>An entire generation outfitted with a struggle. The manner of their skin and clothes, equalizers for dependency. Silently affective inequalities drum out the looming threat of indulgence. Peace of mind is absorbed in conduct and completion of uniform tasks. The discipline of pharmacological ordering contrasts the postponement of technological excess. . .  anywheristan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An entire generation outfitted with a struggle. The manner of their skin and clothes, equalizers for dependency. Silently affective inequalities drum out the looming threat of indulgence. Peace of mind is absorbed in conduct and completion of uniform tasks. The discipline of pharmacological ordering contrasts the postponement of technological excess. . .  anywheristan?</p>
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		<title>By: SanderO</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4022</link>
		<dc:creator>SanderO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4022</guid>
		<description>Another take away from so much of what we are reading on this web site and in particular in this article is how much information is managed and filtered.

This amounts to a completely uniformed public and a skewed debate.

If this because the reporting is not being done?  Or that the editors and management are inserting ideology into the news and framing it?  Probably so.  How can this be changed?

We certainly are faced with the echo chamber effect where one story is completely based on another and no original reporting is done or drilling into the backstory.  And what is more troubling is that the source for so much of the new is &quot;official sources&quot; and from annonymous officials who refuse to be named.... and who leak &quot;information&quot;.

This puts even an honest reporter in a tight place as he or she wants the scoop, but all they are doing is passing along &quot;hearsay&quot; with no accountability or independent corroboration.

We live in an age when news is not only managed, but part of a for profit enterprise. That alone means that stories are created to sell advertising or simply to ring the hit meter.  Hence we have all the sensationalist pop culture nonsense which dominates the news, dumbing down the public and providing cover for wrong doers. The fifth estate is no longer doing its watchdog function.

So we have the conflation and synergy of two problems - controlled information from anonymous or simply authoritative sources which is to be taken as fact, and the need for news to make money for the press. 

Net effect - criminals get away with murder.

[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us &#039;0 which is not a hashcash value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another take away from so much of what we are reading on this web site and in particular in this article is how much information is managed and filtered.</p>
<p>This amounts to a completely uniformed public and a skewed debate.</p>
<p>If this because the reporting is not being done?  Or that the editors and management are inserting ideology into the news and framing it?  Probably so.  How can this be changed?</p>
<p>We certainly are faced with the echo chamber effect where one story is completely based on another and no original reporting is done or drilling into the backstory.  And what is more troubling is that the source for so much of the new is &#8220;official sources&#8221; and from annonymous officials who refuse to be named&#8230;. and who leak &#8220;information&#8221;.</p>
<p>This puts even an honest reporter in a tight place as he or she wants the scoop, but all they are doing is passing along &#8220;hearsay&#8221; with no accountability or independent corroboration.</p>
<p>We live in an age when news is not only managed, but part of a for profit enterprise. That alone means that stories are created to sell advertising or simply to ring the hit meter.  Hence we have all the sensationalist pop culture nonsense which dominates the news, dumbing down the public and providing cover for wrong doers. The fifth estate is no longer doing its watchdog function.</p>
<p>So we have the conflation and synergy of two problems &#8211; controlled information from anonymous or simply authoritative sources which is to be taken as fact, and the need for news to make money for the press. </p>
<p>Net effect &#8211; criminals get away with murder.</p>
<p>[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us &#8216;0 which is not a hashcash value.</p>
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		<title>By: Metem</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4021</link>
		<dc:creator>Metem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4021</guid>
		<description>Shit, I meant &#039;Kingfisher&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shit, I meant &#8216;Kingfisher&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Metem</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4020</link>
		<dc:creator>Metem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 08:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4020</guid>
		<description>To continue the thought of Kinfisher&#039;s last sentence &quot;and therefore since some totally unrelated people used it as such before us, it&#039;s totally not our fault that we&#039;re doing it now.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To continue the thought of Kinfisher&#8217;s last sentence &#8220;and therefore since some totally unrelated people used it as such before us, it&#8217;s totally not our fault that we&#8217;re doing it now.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kingfisher</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4018</link>
		<dc:creator>Kingfisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 05:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4018</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;FACT: Covert funding for the mujahideen began long before the Soviet invasion, not after. This covert aid was intended to lure the Soviets into the Afghan trap and hold them there, not drive them out, as claimed by Charlie Wilson.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;
True, the initial aid was to lure the Soviets in.  Once the Soviets invaded the goal of the aid was to slowly bleed them, not actually defeat them.  What Wilson &amp; co did was push to change the goal to defeating the Soviets in Afghanistan and to provide the means to do so.  Both statements would be correct.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;..it is unconscionable for any media to perpetuate the fantasy that Charlie Wilson or the Congress wanted the Soviets out of Afghanistan.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; 
Wilson wanted to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan; why else would you push to introduce foreign weapons (stinger missiles) to the battlefield thereby destroying any plausible deniability of the covert operation and risk direct confrontation with the USSR, if not to actually win?

&lt;i&gt;&quot;FACT: Charlie Wilson’s War became the rallying cry for an arms buildup that would end­ public debate about American foreign policy on Afghanistan. The world was remade with the Soviet folly in Afghanistan, a Communist empire destroyed and the West’s pre-eminence assured. But the price in human suffering in Afghanistan and the impact on our democratic freedoms has yet to be understood.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;  
True, but Afghanistan has historically been a buffer state and as such been geographically condemned to being a bleeding ground.  Has been a bleeding ground since before America began, and likely will be a bleeding ground long after it ends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;FACT: Covert funding for the mujahideen began long before the Soviet invasion, not after. This covert aid was intended to lure the Soviets into the Afghan trap and hold them there, not drive them out, as claimed by Charlie Wilson.&#8221;</i><br />
True, the initial aid was to lure the Soviets in.  Once the Soviets invaded the goal of the aid was to slowly bleed them, not actually defeat them.  What Wilson &amp; co did was push to change the goal to defeating the Soviets in Afghanistan and to provide the means to do so.  Both statements would be correct.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;..it is unconscionable for any media to perpetuate the fantasy that Charlie Wilson or the Congress wanted the Soviets out of Afghanistan.&#8221;</i><br />
Wilson wanted to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan; why else would you push to introduce foreign weapons (stinger missiles) to the battlefield thereby destroying any plausible deniability of the covert operation and risk direct confrontation with the USSR, if not to actually win?</p>
<p><i>&#8220;FACT: Charlie Wilson’s War became the rallying cry for an arms buildup that would end­ public debate about American foreign policy on Afghanistan. The world was remade with the Soviet folly in Afghanistan, a Communist empire destroyed and the West’s pre-eminence assured. But the price in human suffering in Afghanistan and the impact on our democratic freedoms has yet to be understood.&#8221;</i><br />
True, but Afghanistan has historically been a buffer state and as such been geographically condemned to being a bleeding ground.  Has been a bleeding ground since before America began, and likely will be a bleeding ground long after it ends.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Bergman</title>
		<link>http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2009/12/22/charlie-wilson%e2%80%99s-war-is-a-fantasy/comment-page-1/#comment-4017</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Bergman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 04:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/?p=1242#comment-4017</guid>
		<description>Do the interests of the Ritchie brothers, and their father and friends, reach back that far as well?  Your (F&amp;G) material in Invisible History on those parties is pretty eye-opening.  You note their father was a civil engineer.  Was he working on energy-related projects?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do the interests of the Ritchie brothers, and their father and friends, reach back that far as well?  Your (F&amp;G) material in Invisible History on those parties is pretty eye-opening.  You note their father was a civil engineer.  Was he working on energy-related projects?</p>
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