Podcast Show #45
Thursday, 2. June 2011
Paul Craig Roberts joins us to discuss the September 11 terrorist attacks as the defining event of our time, which has launched our nation on interminable wars of aggression, a domestic police state where the American President is a Caesar and completely above the law. He describes the US corporate media’s role today, which is to serve the government and the interest groups that empower the government, their astonishing blackout on legitimate investigations regarding 9/11 such as the investigation results supported by more than 1500 architects, and how currently the majority of Americans are ruled by propaganda and with little regard for truth and little access to it. Mr. Roberts talks about the conflicting, ever-changing and in many ways dubious accounts of the killing of Osama Bin Laden, the Military Industrial Complex’ need for the next ‘black hat,’ the question of China, and more!
Paul Craig Roberts is a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He has been reporting on executive branch and cases of prosecutorial abuse for two decades. He has written or co-written eight books, contributed chapters to numerous books, and has published many articles in journals of scholarship. A new edition of his book, The Tyranny of Good Intentions, co-authored with Lawrence Stratton, a documented account of how Americans lost the protection of law, has been released by Random House. Mr. Roberts has testified before congressional committees on 30 occasions on issues of economic policy, and has been a critic of both Democratic and Republican administrations. His writings frequently appear on OpEdNews, Prisonplanet.com, Antiwar.com, Lew Rockwell’s web site, CounterPunch, and the American Free Press.
Here is our guest Paul Craig Roberts unplugged!
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lightviperr Says:
Whistleblowers need to take a page out of the civil rights movement. They have to protest, expose, disrupt, boycott, and thwart corruption in a sustained effort. Can a law be the law and still be unjust? Certainly it can. They should stay in the organization as long as possible to foster a reputation as a shill to gain trust and to expose even bigger corruption. The willingness to keep corruption a secret is probably the primary characteristic sought in government officials. I think Gen. Tommy Franks, George Tenet, and Paul Bremer’s Presidential Medal of Freedom could attest to that.
MLK said “My bible tells me that Good Friday comes before Easter, before the crown we wear there is the cross we must bear. Let us bear it, bear it for truth, bear it for justice, and bear it for peace.” “He would refer to setbacks as the necessary midnights that would precede a dawn of shining equality and justice.”
yoshi Says:
Why are experts labeled as “kooks”? For several reasons:
Their questioning is seen as a threat to someone else’s money and power. How then do you stop this threat?
First, for every expert that questions the status quo, have at least two to counter what they say. All three may have Phd’s and years of experience in their fields. Yet the idea is to bury the average person who may not know much about this with what sounds like “official” information. Who do you believe then? Your own govt. or a kook?
If that doesn’t work, then offer them lots of grant money for research that they possibly can’t get elsewhere. If that doesn’t work, then publically ridicule them. If that doesn’t work, worse case scenario, kill them.
What should everyone who wants the real 9/11 sotry do? IMO, set aside your egos and band together (there’s power in numbers)? A lot of what I see is lots of people fighting to sell books, CD’s, DVD’s and cutting each other down in public forums.
What does that accomplish? Nothing.
Also, for the Powers that Be to label 9/11 families as “conspriacy nuts” is just low. If you lost family or friends in 9/11, would YOU want someone else to say your loss means nothing?
It doesn’t matter if one minute the govt. says Bin Laden is irrevelant. To them, all that matters is perpetuating “terrorism”. In a way it’s like the Willie Horton neocon ads that were used against Dukakis. Vote for Bush, or this scary black guy is going to break into your house, kill your wife and rape your daughter. With Al Quaeda, vote for Obama or they’ll blow up your house.
If Al Quaeda is fake and 9/11 was an inside job, how would people react?
Jon Gold Says:
There’s so much more to 9/11… the emphasis on the buildings drives me crazy. http://911truthnews.com/jon-golds-official-911-justice-start-up-kit/
j kanarcho Says:
One of the many notable points made by Mr. Roberts with respect to the middle east uprisings is the nature of each: The origins being either the citizenry in the streets or quasi-military. The location within each country – in the streets or near strategically important locations (oil).
Valuable for insight and understanding. Thank you.
Simon Says:
When I hear interviews like those just provided, it gets discouraging. Paul Craig reflects generally my own assessment of the situation, but offered no hope. For that reason, I will make an effort to provide an example of HOPE. Timing is key as Sibel is frequently fond of quoting. A local news reporter showed up where I was getting gas, and I was able to direct his attention to carbon emissions and climate change. Our U.S. Congressman, who is of a party that I do not support, called and invited us to speak in his new format, a townhall meeting by phone. Will he consider my suggestions? That is not up to me, but I can say that these ‘Elite with Hubris’ are seriously in danger of extinction, and we can provide solutions to give them an out, not for their benefit, but for the sake of the rest of us. That is the hope that I can offer.
Congressman,
I heard you when you called my home as part of a townhall phone meeting. It definitely helped me understand your position. I was the last person in line to get cleared to speak as you ended your program, and I left a phone message. This is a more complete response to that call. It is so difficult to actually get the attention of a Congressman. I should begin by referencing Gum Swamp Road east of Monticello where the triticale is planted. Most locals do not know what triticale is. It is a rye/wheat hybrid that breeds true. The Barnharts own 750 acres in the area. We planted twenty acres which we harvested this week. There is an area of 128 acres that we could put into production. We drove by the homes of wealthy white politician Allan Boyd, and commissioner Doyle Conor. The disparity in Jefferson County between rich and poor struck me forcibly as David Barnhart, a black man and retired teacher, explained the history of the area to me.
Since you are on energy, transportation, and agriculture committees my response is a direct solution to all three. Justin Sutton designed the Interstate Traveler Project. You can visit his site and have your staffers research that material. I spoke with Claus Putjenter about this idea. He managed billions of euros for the German rail system and was a civil engineer prior to that for the rail system. He agreed that light rail is a flawed design because of microstress fractures that develop at high speed because no poured bed can be perfect. The maglev, solar, hydrogen highway above the Interstate Commons avoids these problems. While hydrogen generates electricity. Local vehicles would arrive at spaced stations to recharge with electricity. The Germans have invested $2 billion in a hydrogen infrastructure. This goes beyond that.
In Tallahassee, Jim Zheng formed a company called Bing Energy. As a faculty member at FSU, he also has intimate contacts with our Nobel laureate physicists and engineers at the Mag Lab and CAPS. China also has helped to fund this start-up. Bing has a relatively large outlay for a new two year old company. The heart of the company is an engineering design to eliminate the largest problem with hydrogen fuels cells – strategic metals. The reformer process requires 60% less platinum and 90% of that can be recovered when the life of the fuel cell is ended. Jim Zheng made this discovery, which to be fair is still under review, and must be carefully cross checked.
So we have looked at Energy and Transportation, but overlooked is the third major component of an Interstate Traveler Project between Jacksonville and Tallahassee. Formerly U.S. 90 was the corridor by which farmers brought their produce to market. A maglev above the Interstate would also include conduits for bringing water and trace minerals from the ocean. Quickly, have one of your staffers reference Ocean Solution to see why I consider this very important. Also, you might be interested to know that getting trace minerals back into whole foods will have major health consequences, where present agriculture has relied upon three main elements and starved our bodies.
Sadly, I was discouraged by your carefully worded response to energy that did not mention hydrogen and apparently you are uninformed to the extent of the crisis facing our planet with regard to carbon emissions. I will avoid Al Gore who is NOT a scientist, but please reference Peter Ward at the University of Washington regarding major geologic extinction periods and what brought them about. Human induced climate change is not a myth, despite the efforts of big tobacco lobbyists hired by Big Oil to create doubt, and the nature of global geopolitics, which does not allow for another energy source.
I am glad that you are a Christian, because the level of danger you are potentially facing is enormous and only God can protect you and your family. This will increase as you take concrete steps to reform the corporate control of Washington, D.C.
In Christ
Gone Fishing
Bill Bergman Says:
I especially appreciated some of the comments on executive branch authority in the constitutional scheme of things.
Bill Bergman Says:
… and how they get to make the law up as they go along these days.
Zica Says:
Good interview. Thanks!
Zica Says:
I can’t help notice the irony of Jon Gold complaining about too much focus on questions of the WTC buildings’ destruction during a BF interview. The world’s no longer round.
remo Says:
25o language specialists working the transcripts over the period before and after 911 had NEVER HEARD of or had referred to “Al Qaeda” before 911?!! Jaw dropping!That is primary open source. astounding!! There it is.the script attached to the brand of 911, To the HOAX of 911 immediate. Ehud Barak on BBC, 11.29am.
911.
This is a wonderful interview. Clear. measured and knowing. Distilled.
Thank you.
So good to hear discussion of Nils Harrit Active Material paper making notice all over the world – never a mention in mainland USA. Media cartel/Homeland security doing its job, firewalling the information stream creating/the/narrative. domestic gatekeepers, manipulation without care of international interference? Fact is, international awareness IS going to manifest inside USA. Is making a difference right now.
Mr Roberts insider knowledge that if 911 attack HAD been as presented, Admin.response would have been ENTIRELY different. primary source again.
The magnitude of the LIE being delivered by lawless Government.State secrets to hide the crime. To hear it said so clearly is a relief.no matter the prognosis….politicians don’t FACE the problems…they can’t. Face the problem and your back gets exposed, don Quixote. fake problems. Hoaxes.special interest owns wall st/blackops/you can’t go against the interest groups.! Oligarchy!
Libya.
CIA. Syria! Russia,
China.
Ports.
Caesar!
WAR
clear my eyes.,
Sibel Edmonds Says:
@remo: Glad to see at least someone was ‘truly’ listening to this interview:-)
@Zica: And thank you for the encouragement.
@Bill: My first intro to Mr. Roberts was that great/powerful piece on the media, and after that I was hooked. Great to know ‘we’ are not the only ‘crazies’ who have refrained from drinking the poisoned water:-)
willl Says:
June 5, the American reality show: WORK, work, work, SHOP, shop, shop and SLEEP if you can. Moreover, voters distracted by personal and financial problems; and that well known problem of human psychology that “people hear what they want to hear”.
The American people have so little regard for truth now; because mass hysteria IS lose in the land. Triggered by multiplying wars, rumors of wars, etc. This government fostered state-of -fear, crowds out truth with lies; thus, fiction rules public policy debates.
Similarly, partisan politics is a distraction because ONE PARTY, the corporate special interest controls most national election outcomes. The downward spiral cannot be escaped.
Ignorance masses cannot find the REAL, because they have not discovered that the MSM, the Voice of American, that mighty Wurlitzer that speaks to them every day is journalism largely funded by CIA, And DEPENDANT on government licensing of the air waves. As Robert’s speculates the Washington Post newspaper might not exist today without generous government agency funding, including the CIA. The media is held in a catch-22 hostage situation. All MSM fear government’s massive influence. No help to information hungry voters. Disinformation rules the day.
It may be true as Paul Craig Roberts said: the sole industry’s that have not been out-sourced is the military-security complex, and the pharma-medical complex. Without these industries there a few jobs left. So the state of perpetual war must continue; else, we would ALL be jobless.
Controlled financially by the People’s Republic of China, Beijing. Supermax prisons may await those, who protest, by exercising their sacred civil right of dissent.
Politicians no longer face any real problems. We face hoaxes, such as the 9-11 hoax, we truly have crossed the Rubicon because leaders know our problems have no solutions: Wall Street, APAC, the military-security complex rules; FASCIST oligarchy—the matrix, and elections no longer matter, because the US president becomes a empty figurehead. Our Pseudo-democracy may be the worst, cruel hoax that noone dares to acknowledge.
Thanks Sibel for the reality lesson. I have only one solution to offer. Thanks, also, to Paul Craig Roberts with this insightful interview: allowing me to understand the current Catch 22 predicament better. ONE solution is this little poem, w. e. Henley’s INVICTUS:
http://www.englishverse.com/poems/invictus
This poem deserves to be read. The words were Tim McVeigh’s last words:
McVeigh was executed by the FEDs on June 11, 2001 a true hero in his first war, the Iraq war he fought, earned him a chest full of medels. True hero status. McVeigh expired, A FULL three months before that fateful 9-11 governemnt conspiracy transpired, wherein
THREE towers fell. And few wish to discover why there remain so many unanswered questions. A systemic coverup continues.
In retrospect, McVeigh may have been a true visionary. The government didn’t like his second war: because the United States of American was his target.
Ponder well our nation’s current situation as we approach June 11, the anniversary of McVeigh’s execution: The blood of tyrants and martyrs’ are on all our hands today. A paraphrase of Thomas Jefferson.
DC, Hubris and arrogance will continue. When the Soviet Union appeared to collapse in 1990, they may have only moved to DC. A state of peace seems to be no longer possible.
The dangers we face seem on the increase, and the freedoms and liberty, Americans so loved are missing in action: a casuality of the Patriot Act.
Feds certainly don’t expect to be held accountable because owing to the continual state of war: the CONSTITUTION is disrespected by an outlaw government. Heil Caesar. Heil O’BAMA.
(God help us).
flybynews Says:
I was disappointed in Paul Craig Roberts response to one question on his pathway via Reagan to his present awareness and concerns. He made Reagan out to be a President working on problems with results and solutions. However, as Iran-Contra shows Reagan was another puppet. He had the chance to work out a pathway for abolishing nuclear weapons, but refused to give up the so-called Missile Defense (SDI), which was in actuality a Trojan Horse for accelerating the arms race and offensive capabilities.
Besides that.. I found the whole interview illuminating, especially from Robert’s point that people just don’t want to know the truth, except for a small minority of us listening and dealing with such concerns and objections to incredible lies destabilizing our world and leading to dangerous wars for all.
Thank you for this interview, and sharing your experiences and work for what the US Constitution is really about, and with integrity and style. I hope this 10th anniversary will awaken more of the public to respond to the horrendous lie of our time.. This new paperback book, which will be published this July could help: “9/11: The Simple Facts: Why the Official Story Can’t Possibly Be True” written by Arthur Naiman with assistance from AE911Truth. Here’s a URL for article about this: http://ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/522-new-paperback-demolishes-official-wtc-story.html
The boiling frogs program is definitely one of the best radio shows around. Thank You.. I will be linking to this show from my site http://www.FlybyNews.com
janissary Says:
you’ll forgive me I hope for pointing out that the recent changeover here to relying upon the distilled wisdom of other dissident voices such as CPR and El hermano Pepe in place of the necessary delivery of the goods by our distinguished heroine… “I was planning to write a comprehensive piece based on information and analyses I have gathered from my solid intelligence and Pentagon sources…” is an ominous signal that my worst fears were not without reason: you were the key to throwing the bad guys out on third with all the bases loaded. Yes, we were that close to winning!
Way back in January I pleaded with you to “talk about the assassination of the one(and only)political figure with the credibility, the will, and the *metaphorical* cojones to talk about the Bin Laden scam and it’s covert backers back there in your current neighborhood,& the intricacies of the connecting dots between Ankara, Langley, T Aviv and points east” – a move which would have derailed the whole Abbotabadgate farce that has already detained too much of your and you readership’s subsequent attention…an invitation not accepted, to the detriment of all still sentient beings.
At this point, we are through 9 innings, and the onus is now on you as the ‘shortstop’ who would not throw the ball, to prove that you are still on our side Ms E. Sorry to be so blunt, but every game needs an ump! No more free passes for anybody.
Sibel Edmonds Says:
@flybynews: Many thanks for your input/feedback, and of course your kind and encouraging words.
Zica Says:
Doesn’t this make everybody want to pitch in a little more and make another donation to BFPost?
Sibel, maybe another post about your story of the translators saying they’d never heard of “Al Qaeda” would be a useful reference for people to link to. Could you get anybody else to give a first hand quote?
Thanks!
SanderO Says:
FlyBy / Jonathan…
Who is the arbiter of the “facts” of 911? It certainly isn’t Richard Gage and David Chandler both of which have been proven to be stretching the truth with some of their “facts”.
And aside from that you are spamming the thread posting that advertisement.
I like the comment that whistle blowers need to be more activist and not expect the DOJ to get behind them and “do the right thing”. We know the DOJ is so corrupt it’s laughable.
This doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t present their insider “truths” to the DOJ. But I would simply go public and VERY public and expose as much corruption as you can. Shame the DOJ to do the right thing… they won’t. But shine as much light as possible. Press won’t show up? Call a press conference every day… do it on the steps of the Supreme Court, the US Capitol.. in front of the White House.
You leak (talk) to the DOJ and they close the case down and PUNISH the leakers. We’re really at the point that we must really “start over” and get rid of all those SOBs in the beltway, the MSM and of course the national security state. We need to take back out country from these SOBs.
Thank you Sibel.
Sibel Edmonds Says:
@SanderO: “we must really “start over” and get rid of all those SOBs in the beltway, the MSM and of course the national security state. We need to take back out country from these SOBs.” I’m with you. I like to hear people using ‘we’ instead of ‘them, they’ as in ‘those congressmen should….’ ‘those whistleblowers should…’ or ‘people should do….’ It truly does start with ‘we.’ Thanks!
Sabretruthtiger Says:
@SanderO Gage and Chandler are the only ones telling it like it is. Only shills and disinformation scumbags try to say otherwise. If you’re so sure they’re stretching the truth, then provide examples, which will be promptly annihilated by yours truly.
@Jon Gold. The buildings are the primary evidence and constitute outright proof, anything else is a distraction and provides a target for the state and it’s sycophants to attack via strawman arguments.
For example the CIT shills and their ridiculous theory involving a convoluted scenario where a missile strikes the pentagon, the plane flies over and away, lightpoles are bent along the flightpath and a generator damaged after the fact by conspirators(LOL!)
Sabretruthtiger Says:
And as for the shill Judy woods and her ridiculous beams from space theory…….
Jon Gold Says:
@Sabretruthtiger “anything else is a distraction and provides a target for the state and it’s sycophants to attack via strawman arguments.”
Like Sibel and other 9/11 whistleblowers that were ignored and censored by the 9/11 Commission? Like the families seeking justice? Please.
I am not part of the Controlled Demolition Movement.
Sabretruthtiger Says:
I was talking about evidence, not people providing evidence. If you’re not part of the controlled demolition movement then you don’t believe 911 was an inside job, because it’s a scientific fact that it was controlled demolition. Which part of the science do you need help with? I’m only to happy to educate people.
Sabretruthtiger Says:
‘Too’ happy (typo)
Sabretruthtiger Says:
The reason it’s so important is to convince people that it’s an inside job, there is important evidence of coverups and corruption as well, so I’m not trying to detract from that side of things but the vast majority of people suffer from cognitive dissonance and even evidence of cover ups and corruption is not enough to wake people up to the reality. Although even with all the evidence sheeple are still proving to be sheeple.
Sibel Edmonds Says:
@Sabretruthtiger: Jon has been working nonstop for years on important issues and related questions; he’s been supporting/helping 9/11 family members, and he’s been an avid defender of slenders against me. You may disagree with his views but doesn’t give you right to question his motives/integrity.
Sibel Edmonds Says:
oooops he’s been defending the legit whistleblowers (and myself) against attacks/slender; that’s what I meant!
Jon Gold Says:
Thank you Sibel.
Zica Says:
I agree and add my support for Jon Gold. My comment on irony was more about what’s been happening at BFP. Thanks Jon!
SanderO Says:
sabretoothtiger,
This is not the forum to discuss the science of 9/11. As an architect (e3ven worked for the architects of the twin towers) since 1970 and someone who was born and has lived in NYC almost my entire life, who has been on the board of AE911T and who has conducted independent research into the collapse of the twin towers, I can declare that Gage and Chandler have made several factual errors. I’m not the only one who understand this. And Gage has done no research on his own. He goes around the country doing the same dog and pony show now for 4 years.
We do know (and can agree) that there were many deceptions in the official accounts. And it’s likely that there were devices placed in the towers to initiate a gravitational collapse and that these weren’t placed by Al Qaeda. It’s also likely that this was a false flag operation to get the USA into a never ending war with/in any country it chooses to engage.
However there is so much misunderstanding about the collapse of the twin towers by the truth movement, including Gage and Chandler… that many of their unscientific statements are not winning many engineers and scientists who have actually studied the matter. But yes, to the casual (naive) observer, Gage’s (and Chandler’s) case for explosive controlled demolition seems compelling. However, it’s not entirely correct.
Trust by verify.
willl Says:
SanderO
Yes, I agree. “9-11 was a FALSE FLAG operation to get the USA into a never ending war with/in any country it chooses to engage.”(Endless war yields endless profit for a few drone and bomb makers).
But if this charge could be proven and THE 9-11 COVERUP becomes general public knowledge, would not this revelation completely collapse our system? Has not the government in fact destroyed all the evidence that could be brought to any valid new investigation already?
If this FALSE FLAG operation is not a case of SOVEREIGH IMMUNITY, then the payoffs alone from lawsuits could double the national debt.
THE FIRST AMENDMENT exists so that the press can be a check on government abuse of power, not a handmaiden to it. The barrage of infotainment we endure effectively nullifies this critical former role of the “fourth estate”. Newspapers are the big keepers of government secrets today because they can be effectively bankrupted or otherwise shut down if they cross this massive central power center.
Today, looking at the country we see a society of passive spectators instead of potential activists. The American Revolution came about because of independent voices like Thomas Paine. While we experience, ‘the disinformation overload‘ and are FED a barrage of irrelevant infotainment; Then democracy CAN NO LONGER exist.
There is no longer a revolutionary spirit of dissent in the land, or even minor critical thinking skills by the MSM demonstrated. MSM have been the patsy of the FEDS for at least a generation.
Richard Reeves, a great journalist and historian of the past, once was asked: “What do you mean by REAL NEWS”? REEVES reply, “Real news is the news we need to keep our freedom”.
Well, today the ONLY source of information for those who have the time to search for NEWS,as single individuals, is the internet. And judging from recent behavior of the Federal Communication Commission board, who are actively seeking to solve false internet problems that exist only in the boards own imagination (and the Obama-administration- imagination), then recent internet REFORM proposals will nullify the internet as a positive social force for liberty.
We became a police state and lost our democracy because of the domination, the monopoly of power being exercised by huge economic interests, both directly and indirectly.
Recent Posse comitatus reforms may now allow military presence on city streets. Many journalists are on the CIA payroll, that mighty Wurlitzer can spin any scenario imaginable. The government ministry of propaganda exists and our tax dollars fund it.
Police agencies may now be requesting drone surveillance for a few US cities. We may soon discover how the folks in Pakistan feel .
Any ideas on how can we stop this spiral into martial law that Paul Craig Roberts implies in this heartening interview?
remo Says:
@Sander0
Please.
you can be very brief and list the factual mistakes R Gage and J Chandler are making. We need to hear what you have to say.
If it cannot be brief, It is possible to properly state these errors in longer version by other means.
We will be very grateful to hear them and filter them thru the matrix.
Bink Says:
@Sander0
@JonGold
Yes I agree with Remo here – please point out their errors.
Inquiring minds want to know.
(Oh – and by the way – free fall collapse speed through undamaged steel structure is impossible. For confirmation – check out a Fifth Grade Science text.)
And while you’re at it explain the nano-thermite found in the dust, the molten metal in the ruins, the pyroclastic density current, the testimony of William Rodríguez and others, the projection of large steel beams upwards in a supposed gravity collapse etc, etc …
Zica Says:
According to this document from the Congressional Research Service (http://www.fas.org/irp/crs/033104.pdf), Al Qaeda was responsible for attacks going back to 1992.
How does that jive with none of the translators hearing/seeing the term “Al Qaeda” before 9/11?
Jon Gold Says:
The authors of the nano-thermite paper should pay an independent company like RJ Lee to verify the findings of their paper. As it stands right now, Steven Jones, the originator of the thermite/nano-thermite findings, promoted publicly the idea that the Haiti Earthquake was manmade, and is now advocating some kind of perpetual motion machine. One of the peer reviewers of the nano-thermite paper said that the victims were alive and well and living on a tropical island. The nano-thermite paper was published in a pay-to-play journal. Since I’m not a scientist, I can’t tell you whether or not what they are saying is legitimate. As a layman, I can tell you that the nano-thermite paper does NOT seem credible in the least as it stands right now.
All I said was, “there’s so much more to 9/11… the emphasis on the buildings drives me crazy.” That is the TRUTH. This is NOT the “Controlled Demolition” movement.
As for translators never hearing of “Al-Qaeda” that’s really no big surprise. “Al-Qaeda” is whatever our Government needs it to be, wherever it needs it to be. According to Tony Shaffer, it’s a mindset. Not an “organization.” Does everyone remember when insurgents in Iraq “morphed” (to quote Glenn Greenwald) into “Al-Qaeda?” As far as I can tell, “Al-Qaeda” is more like the Pakistani ISI, the Saudi Royals, and the CIA manipulating, funding and training those individuals with legitimate grievances against Western interests. And then there are those individuals without ISI/Saudi/CIA backing with legitimate grievances against the West.
Jon Gold Says:
Oh yea… that, “you either believe what I say, or you are a this or that” mentality has helped to destroy the cause of 9/11 Justice. So thank you to everyone that has participated in that cult like behavior. Thank you for driving people away. Thank you for turning people off from wanting to participate. Thank you for nothing.
konst Says:
I wish people learn to cite their sources when they refute or support important assertions. I don’t always do that too but it helps people research the subject.
SanderO can you please provide links to your assertions?
Also let’s not forget there are many more victims of 9/11: the 3,000 victims in the buildings and aircraft, the thousands of sick and dying first responders, the hundreds of thousands of victims killed by the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and the list goes on and on but 9/11 started them all.
Of course before 9/11, policies of the US-British empires caused many deaths and sufferings to the people around the world and the results are blowback.
Bink Says:
@Jon Gold et al
- Humm…sounds like Ad hominems against researchers who are willing to share the dust, and their work, for others to investigate.
- The mistakes made by Gage and other architects and engineers still haven’t seemed to surface here.
- We know you’re not a scientist – that’s why it was suggested you check out “gravity” and “resistance” in a school science text. If you don’t understand the concepts – perhaps it’s best to remain silent on the topic and don’t simply complain – “this is not a Controlled Demolition movement” – which you seem to continually repeat at a number of sites.
- Anyone interested in al-Qaida should check out the BBC’s The Power of Nightmares doc.
remo Says:
zica. If I heard this right, translators from the field of operations transcribing incoming source material from Mid east ground; primary source unadulterated information flows – of 250 translators, Al Qaeda had NOT been mentioned heard of or spoken of until 911. That is what Sibel said. On the ground chatter, translated primary source information, incoming, had not recorded use of the words prior to 911.
The Congressional Research Departments 5 page memo you linked, dated March 31, 2004, mention the words AL Qaeda fifty seven times. 57. Quoting RAND and Department of State sources.
If you were street level Police, and you walked your beat, and you had never heard in all street level discussion mention of a gang, then helped deal with an atrocity the size of 911, to be told later that it was attributable to a street level organization from your beat you had never heard mentioned before that day, but thereafter heard countless times repeated always from only the official side of the fence …….then later still began to hear the gang was made up of operators running with a very shifty home team……chief among them a probable asset to the company ………
Jon. All good positive tests for/against the paper should be undergoing right NOW absolutely and why are LEE not doing it as a PUBLIC service to free society right now?!. But that does NOT make the paper ‘not credible’. As layman, the paper stands CREDIBLE until scientific rebuttal prove it otherwise. Then, the writers of the original paper review the rebuttal, and argue the case onwards until the truth is met. And I am asking Sander0 to point out the factual errors Gage and Chandler are making, so that my thinking, my information, can be reviewed, discussed and exercised. That is all.
Jon Gold Says:
Nothing ad hominem about what I said. Nothing I said is untrue. You don’t like the truth? Sorry.
Believing in the “Controlled Demolition” of the towers and WTC7 is NOT a prerequisite to be an activist for the cause of 9/11 Justice, and never has been.
You shouldn’t have to be a scholar, an engineer, a scientist, a physicist, etc… and so on, to understand the need for 9/11 Justice.
remo Says:
None of that pertains to the substantive question.
Science response in proper form will decide the papers veracity.
Until then, it is credible. Thats how peer review works. Evidence tested. Names on the top. Process, checks and balances. conclusion.
Until properly contested it stands.
Bink Says:
@jonGold
Jon. You have ‘spunk.’
You still didn’t address the facts – you know ‘facts’ ? (Outlined a few comments above)
Things like ‘gravity’.
That’s actually why they call it -’The Truth Movement.’ Facts.
And when people wake up – they realize gravity doesn’t vaporize steel and concrete, create molten pools of metal, create manufactured microscopic explosive, make Urban Moving Systems lose business, or make buildings collapse in seconds when most of the underlying structure is completely undamaged.
I think we all realize you’re not a “scholar, an engineer, a scientist, a physicist” etc – and keep up your support for 911 justice !!(Good plan!!)
Google ” Remember Building 7 “. Learn.
And consider supporting the victims and families.
Jon Gold Says:
No one has supported the victims family members seeking justice moreso than me Bink. Don’t ever insinuate that I don’t.
Bink Says:
How’s the “Remember Building 7″ movement going for ya ?
Are they all “Conspiracy theorists” ?
Jon. You’ve obviously done great work. ( You got me banned from 9/11 Blogger – thank God – Cheers)
But perhaps it’s time for you to step back a bit from the movement – and give “reality” a bit more space.
Zica Says:
@remo: All I can think of is that, when they started using the term “Al Qaeda”, they made it backwards compatible. I wasn’t questioning the integrity of Sibel’s statements. I was wondering how they could be reconciled with the report.
@Bink: Jon has supported the victims and families and he deserves respect.
@Jon: This is Sibel’s site – the one you have defended countless times – and she is giving voice to questions about the destruction of the WTC buildings. I, for one, don’t think she’s trying to turn anything into a “CD Movement”. Please respect the fact that there are valid questions about the subject.
remo Says:
yes. Zica, that’d appear to be the case.BC,Backwards compatible very apt term.
Bink Says:
@ Zica.
What exactly about “gravity” and “resistance” do you not understand ?
I’d say Newton deserves more respect than Jon Gold.
If you have a problem with that – I’d say it says more about you than reality.
Grow up.
Bink Says:
( I’d record these people’s IP’s Sibel – Cheers)
Black Order Says:
There are a bazillion holes, contradictions and peculiar coincidences in the events surrounding 9/11 and the official ‘story’. Some things are suggestive, others are conclusive.
Math and physics are definitive.
Math and physics do not lie, ever, anywhere.
WTC7 is unique in that it didn’t get hit by a plane. This simplifies things in comparison to the towers.
If you care to watch the videos of WTC7 collapse, note the sequence of events. It stands there, the damaged side of the building starts to shed a few chunks, the penthouse caves in, the center of the building crimps…
Then, around five seconds in, in a single moment, the entire building goes from a standing structure, to literally dropping out of the sky at or near free fall acceleration.
Three key factors in the way that it fell are rather significant, as it could only have happened under specific circumstances.
Exhibit A – Free fall acceleration. – The rate of acceleration in which it collapsed, does not account for the level of resistance provided by structural concrete and steel.
It could not have possibly fallen that fast unless it had virtually 0 resistance.
Exhibit B – Global symmetrical collapse – The WHOLE ENTIRE BUILDING collapsed symmetrically.
Exhibit C – Sudden onset of “collapse”. At the five second mark, in a single moment, it goes from having enough structural integrity to stand, to having absolutely none. In five seconds, the building was literally broken into pieces, and with nothing to hold it up, drops out of the sky.
For these three things to happen, means that hundreds of structural support mechanisms had to fail completely, symmetrically, almost instantly and/or simultaneously(within a few seconds).
Simultaneous symmetry and completeness takes planning, organization, and order.
Fire does not do this as fire is a chaotic natural process. Fire does not suddenly break an entire building into pieces in organized symmetrical fashion.
The only thing consistent with symmetrical simultaneous failure of all structural integrity of buildings is explosives and/or high intensity incendiaries.
Now, someone please tell me how McQuaeda snuck into a highly secured building housing various government offices and banks, rigged the whole thing with explosives, and got away without getting caught.
And the physics of WTC7 ‘collapse’ is just one thing of MANY to consider in the grand scheme of things. Don’t get me started on the rest. I’ll be here typing for a year.
Among other things, …The official story defies the laws of physics.
Physics does not lie – people do.
WTC7 says it all.
It’s late. I’m rather tired, and I only hope my attempt at articulating the significance of WTC7 collapse is coherent, clear, and concise. I’m kinda out of it. I hope I’ve made some sense of things.
Thanks, and have a nice day.
Black Order
[WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ’0 which is not a hashcash value.
flybynews Says:
“Responses to questions regarding thermite, nanothermite and conventional explosives used in the WTC destruction.”
by Steven Jones
fyi..
http://911blogger.com/news/2011-05-10/responses-questions-regarding-thermite-nanothermite-and-conventional-explosives-used-wtc-destruction
- – - -
when 3 skyscrapers fall down at near free-fall speeds directly straight down.. the only evidence to explain this has to do with explosives, which concurs with 118 fire fighters documenting what they saw on that day. We can always argue on small details, but where will that get us? Former Senator Mike Gravel has a better approach.. to initiate a peoples’ movement http://citizens911commission.com/ for a real investigation based on evidence, not confusion, which can be part of a cover-up. Once an authentic venue to examine what happened manifests, more real testimonies will emerge, and confirmation of what basic physical laws tell us..
Black Order Says:
There has already been an independent investigation in progress ever since 9/11, by millions everywhere.
The truth is there. People just have to see it.
I personally find it a bit absurd to launch a new official independent investigation of any kind.
The truth movement has already served it purpose.
So you get everyone together and organize in an official capacity…then what? Try to convince the beast to hang itself?
Do not waste time trying to convince your murderous rulers to incriminate themselves.
remo Says:
Nope. I don’t think you are right that its a waste of time although I understand the sentiment. the whole historic past is filled with pursuit of justice against crap like this one way or another. This is just our turn. We got to stand these guys up on the podium and show the LIE.
NYCCAN is opening it. 48% of New Yorkers polled support new investigation of Building 7. As you obviously well understand, You crack 7, you automatically open one and two. Systems of LAW already in place can contend with a conspiracy of this size. It can be done. The murderers have ALREADY incriminated themselves.
http://www.world911truth.org/new-poll-48-of-new-yorkers-support-a-new-911-investigation-into-building-7s-collapse
Clif Brown Says:
Sibel, I only learned of you a few days ago when I listened to an interview with you and John Cole. From there I learned of Boiling Frogs.
This was an excellent podbcast though Roberts, understandably, sounds resigned and gives good reasons for being so.
I decided a few years ago that it was long past time for me to stop complaining and start doing. My particular interest is the capture of the U.S. Congress by the Israel lobby, something that comes under the broader area covered by Mr. Roberts.
I need look no further than my own complete acceptance of “The Story of Israel” over the decades of my life to understand how people can be brought to believe fiction if it is presented consistently and relentlessly. As I’m someone who takes some pride in knowing what is going on, being taken like this was sobering. I was brought to believe the inverse of the facts simply because I listened rather than investigated on my own.
To someone who said to me with a sigh of resignation, “but there are so many things wrong in the world!”, I said she should pick one and get busy.
Those who want to wake up depend upon insiders such as yourself speaking out as you are doing. Your effort, enthusiasm and courage are appreciated.
allspark Says:
This was a landmark podcast episode for SEBF. Mr. Roberts was an excellent guest. The program could have gone on for another hour. I hope the program offers this contributing guest another chance to air his valuable insight. Thank you for airing a program about 911. May I suggest you try the referenced Mr. Richard Gage of AE 911 Truth next.