Podcast Show #101: The Sadistic & Unlawful Treatment of Bradley Manning

The Boiling Frogs Show Presents Chase Madar

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Author and attorney Chase Madar joins us to discuss and evaluate the latest developments in the pretrial of Bradley Manning, including his sadistic and unlawful treatment by the government, the politics and legal maneuvers of the court system, and the ugly role played by the US mainstream media. We talk about the silence of the liberals and congressional inaction in Manning’s case, President Obama’s hypocrisy and his legacy as the worst president in US history when it comes to secrecy, whistleblowing and truth-telling, and much more.

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CMChase Madar is the author of a new book The Passion of Bradley Manning. He is a lawyer in New York and a frequent contributor to the London Review of Books, the American Conservative Magazine, and Le Monde Diplomatique.

Here is our guest Chase Madar unplugged!

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  1. Great interview, you guys. Sounds better, Sibel.

    We need more brave insiders to step out and speak out. Hopefully, some will read your book and heed your advice about just how long they should go through the “proper channels”.

    As for judging Ellsberg and McGovern, I would say that, if they are still playing the game of lesser evil, they either do not understand the actual lack of any significant difference in foreign policy, do not appreciate the damage to peace/truth movements done by promoting complicity in Obama’s election, and/or are just plain stubborn and will look for any rationalization instead of admitting they are wrong.

    I’ve met many a hand-waver. They don’t want to listen to those who aren’t afraid of losing. They may not remember that women didn’t vote themselves the right to vote. The candidates get worse every time – the only answer is to vote your conscience, speak your conscience, you know, stop fear mongering and compromising.

    Sibel, sometimes you remind me of Frodo. A lot of powerful people around you wanting to compromise, but you know the job that needs to be done won’t allow it.

  2. avatar Bill Bergman says:

    “I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way.”

  3. I suppose whistle blowing requires the WB to have faith in the justice system to be blind. It’s not. We have countless examples how our system is racists and bends toward the 1% every time.

    There is also the nature of the charge made especially with national security whistle blowers. This is the unadmitted fascist face of the USA democracy which needs cover lest it would be dismantled for what it is.

    The bloated military exists without a threat to match the resources it has. That means it should be downsized. Take any war of the last half century or more… all the countries attacked by the US with its shock and awe state terrorist approach were NO THREAT to the USA. What possible rational justification can there be?

    The same goes for the FBI and many police forces which thrive on the perception of crime… and the war on drugs is simply there to create targets for these agencies when 99% of the problem are victimless crimes. The nasty stuff is hardly worse than what corporations do LEGALLY such as BP, Union Carbide, Monsanto, Dupont, Three Mile Island, Hooker Chemical…Ford… the tobacco companies… the Medical Profession (did you know that 1.5 million women were falsely diagnosed and treated for breast cancer last year?) Million dies from iatogenic causes…

    The priorities of the justice system and the state are to project its constituents… the MIC and the corporations which have bought the government LEGALLY.

    The whistle blower problem is sort of like expecting a corporation to act like a democracy and protect rights of its employees as well as its customers. WRONG… naive… Corporations are private affairs that can do what they like as long as the government which they bought… says it’s OK or does nothing.

    The regulations, OSHA laws and so forth aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. They are fictions that people think control the aggressive and unfettered would be actions of corporations.

    Whistle blowing assumes that the rights exist and there is blind justice and ethics rule. THEY DON’T. And there’s no way to change this system.

    That means you either drop out… piss into the wind… or become an outspoken revolutionary… and that’s considered treasonous and then no one will consider you a stand up person for trying to destroy America.

    Ray McGovern, and even Daniel Ellsberg were courageous to a certain limit… because they still I think…. naively believe in “America” and talk about the sanctity of their oath. Frankly, that’s charming but naive and out of touch.

    Where is the evidence that the system is moving in the right direction for the past 50 yrs? I say none. You blow the whistle… you are self identifying as a pain in the ass for the status quo. They’ll use any and all means to silence or neutralize you… including death. Remember Karen Silkwood.

  4. And for chrissake… the founding fathers… were racists misogynistic elitist who only considered property owners as humans. The rest were chattle. One needs to consider the entirety of who these people are… and the entirety of how the USA democracy has rolled out. Woman didn’t get the right to vote in this democracy for 200 years after it was founded.

    We’re an extremely violent uneducated nation of anti science idiots… aside from a small number who must be dominated by the fiction.

    LOOK IN THE MIRROR AMERICA.

  5. avatar jschoneboom says:

    Glad to see Chase Madar back on the show. He’s great, and both Peter and Sibel did a wonderful job drawing out the key issues. Thanks! This is really an under-played issue, it’s crazy. The NY Times should really be hanging its old gray head in shame. There were at least six quite good articles in The Guardian over the span of 3-4 days around Manning’s court appearance. America is in its own sick little bubble. It’s a sorry state of affairs.

  6. THE NYT is completely under the influence of the CIA, and caters to the real estate people in nyc and is heavy into *lifestyles* of the 1%ers. A complete waste of dead trees. I stopped reading that rag about 8 years ago.

  7. I completely agree with Sibel and Xicha on the Ellsberg/McGovern (and Peter B?) endorsements of Obama. Since I’m not friends with any of these people, however, I can put it considerably less politely (and in fact I’m known to put it less delicately with those who are my friends)… If you endorsed or voted for Obama then you consented to his war crimes. For instance…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYKY2F8jy4U

    That blood is on your hands, because A. you paid for it as a tax payer, and B. you gave consent to the one whom, with enough declassification, could very likely be proven a war criminal and/or traitor against the Constitution on many fronts. As such, the “lesser evil” argument runs against his favor. Romney, for whatever one fears he might have done as president, is not a war criminal… at least not yet. Hence, he was the lesser of two evils on Nov. 6. – I’m not endorsing nor did I vote for Romney either, but the entire idea of strategically voting for the lesser evil is not just morally, but logically bankrupt.

    Whenever I get into this argument with people, invariably I can at least get them to admit that if the Green, Libertarian or other third party candidates had a chance then they would vote for them as they do agree more with their positions than with the Dems/Repubs. But, most of the time, they take the cowardly route and surrender to the War Party, effectively consenting to all of the atrocities committed around the world in their name and with their dollars. Future generations will not look kindly upon ours, much as we hold in contempt the “good Germans” that consented to Hitler.

  8. @Xicha & RoRo: I believe the 3 of us belong to the ‘true irate minority’ club.

    It is good to have a difference of opinion with my guests and even co-host, although, sometimes it is truly frustrating (thinking if these bright and informed people and experts fail to see it, how in the world we are going to help change the ignorant majority …).

    I wish we could have had that discussion go for another hour or two. Another major difference between Pentagon Paper/Watergate period and today’s WBs: The powers and the majority in the CIA wanted and played a major role in ‘WaterGate’ scandal/leaks- ‘they’ wanted it. They had ‘their own reasons’ to see Nixon fall & go. And some whistleblowers, either knowingly or naively became instruments in executing the plan from ‘above.’

    Anyhow, it boils down to this: when the foundation is totally corrupt and rotten, you can’t just go try building a nice window or door or column over it. You must first fix the foundation. Many of these ‘bright and educated’ people are doing exactly that: trying to build little/secondary particles over a foundation that is completely rotten/broken/bad.

  9. I am with Sibel here…but perhaps she has come over to a position I have been stating for years on the www. The system has *legally* be morphed to a place where one can’t make repairs… the entire structure is corrupt and is essentially like a cancer which lives of the naivite of the people… who accept the premise that the system can be fixed WITHIN the system. That is no longer possible. For whatever reason we have passed the point of tweaking and correcting. The state apparatus is controlled by the forces which cannot be democratically displaced. You can’t pass legislation or regulations to fix this any more. The cancer is so deep that you kill the patient of you kill the cancer.

    It’s damn hard to come to this realization. It’s facing up the the fact that we life in a proto fascist country where democracy and rights are marketing themes and have no substance. People have a hard to accepting that the emperor has no clothes. They don’t know what to do? Pitchforks? When you can’t democratically, legislatively, judicially fix this you have to resort to some very unthinkable approaches. That’s the reality and one some can’t bring themselves to believe.

    I sense that many who do are waiting for some sort of huge financial crash where the huddled masses lead the uprising and some lefty thinker will/might jump into lead the new revolution probably by making demands as opposed to storming the capitol.

    The military is of no use in getting back the democracy and rights taken from us… they are the pit bulls for the proto facist corporate masters. Frankly I don’t trust some of the national security state whistle blowers who after long careers supporting the rise of this proto fascism now see the light and expect this system to protect them. What naivite!

    Democracy in America is irreparably broken. And it’s in decline… like a dying animal it can be very dangerous.

    Tax wall street? Is that going to fix anything? Get real!

  10. Can we have an edit feature please??????

  11. avatar Bill Bergman says:

    Peter is very well prepared, as usual.

  12. @SanderO:

    That’s not Frodo.

    You’re spending a lot of energy here giving up, so why not go sailing instead?

    Maybe because you understand a win in the context of a loss? Communities, and maybe even governments, could be built on the shared experience of the good fight. The means is the end.

    So what’s with the constant disheartening commentary, as you said, for years on the web, and especially here?

  13. Why? Because I only observe things going from bad to worse! There are individuals who are obviously doing or trying to do the right thing and I encourage and support them and respect them.

    I make similar comments on a few other sites. You needn’t be bummed out by my comments. But perhaps you want to refute them? I don’t mind debate and discussion. I don’t take it personally when someone disagrees. I’m just not terribly optimistic. Are you?

  14. More so with every episode

    Where’s the encouragement?

  15. Xicha,

    You need to evaluate the comments a person makes in the context of the discussion as well as the experience of the person. I know more about Sibel than you are she or other members know about me. My opinions are informed by my experiences. No? I am 65yrs old and I have been very much not trusting the mainstream *everything* in this nation since about 1963 when JFK was assassinated and my beliefs in the world went through a rude awakening. I began my education and when faced with the draft to serve.. I decided that I would no and leave. They had a lottery and I was lucky and not called. I studied the JFK assassination way back then… attending talks by Mark Lane and listening to a woman name Mae Brussel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mae_Brussell) I participated in scores of protests in my life in NY and DC. I read Philp Agee and know for decades that the CIA was rotten… I also knew that the FBI was having read about J Edgar Hoover, followed the various scandals… and senate investigations which hardly touched the surface like the Church Commission. I witness the state terrorism by the DOD on other nations and on the native americans, and other *radical* such as those in the animal rights movement… My eyes have been wide open for more than 4 decades.

    I also pursued my career as an architect working for myself… and am not semi retired.

    How about you Xicha? What was your epiphany?

  16. Want my credentials?

    For one, I told SanderO to go sailing.

    The rest is a family history of fighting and losing against powerful political forces in city and county government with real effects on my diet and the temperature in my house during the winter.

    I am heartened by those who are not afraid to lose, not by those with a long history of watching others lose and telling others the fight is useless.

  17. My grandfather lost his job as superintendent of schools during the depression, after fighting against the KKK and refusing to fire Catholic teachers.

    My mother lost her job as retaliation for challenging a corrupt library administration. Single mother of eight and the bravest of the whole staff.

  18. @SanderO:

    To be fair, you have said some very encouraging things to and about Sibel here.

    I don’t know what’s with me lately. I wanted to agree with much of your commenting, but, I notice the total desperation or description of destitution spinning into a negative energy zap.

    I understand that you have a point of view based on experience and disappointment. But I want to encourage you to recall something about the struggle that represents the present success.

    By success, I mean that just BEING a person who struggles, at a website full of like BEING strugglers, we have achieved the success of a way to live and a sense of strength and community in relating to one another. That is what evolves into the future. That is what lives. We don’t know how much it will solve, in terms of external problems, which are objectively definable.

    I want to take back my go-sailing comment and apologize for being too aggressive to a fellow inmate searching for a way to experience freedom and justice and peace. Please accept my apology.

    BTW, as far as epiphanies go, I was writing letters to the editor about the Sandanistas and Godlessness at age 12, arguing against the rest of the class through junior high, passing out literature, going to peace and justice meetings, going door to door for a political campaign, etc all before high school. My first epiphany that it was the whole world against me (not a lot of successful converts) was at about 15. I gave up on all of it.

    Cut to 9/11; that morning, I told my wife “those fuckers did it.” I started paying attention again.

    Cut to Boiling Frogs Post: I have more optimism than ever in my life about the real chance at calling them out, cleaning them out. I don’t know how much we will succeed, but I am going to live this strategy as much as I can afford, because Sibel et al have given back to me that passion that was lost for a long time.

  19. Xicha,
    I accept your apology. I try very hard not to make personal attacks online especially since it is so easy and I usually have not met the person and likely never will.

    I don’t ask for anyone’s resume except when it relates to technical matters where in the case of 9/11 there are too much false certainty about very technical matters by people who simply are not qualified to understand what happened to those buildings. Heck… the professions blew it, NIST blew it… the ASCE blew it… but DRG, a theologian knows what happened… I am not impugning their motives or sincerity. They simply are in over their depth and refuse to acknowledge this. Frankly I was in the same position on 9-11 as most… pissed off, not believing the gov and by default believing the truthers… even getting to be a board member of AE911T and then I had a falling out because I asked some inconvenient questions and so I was set free… an orphan of the truth movement and I had to do my own research, fact checking and learning… And after some time I realized the the truth movement was bloated with false certainty and most of the technical stuff they claimed to be true.. WAS NOT. It certainly wasn’t supported by what they claimed to be evidence which supported CD.

    This is a very unfortunate development in my opinion because many people are falling blindly for 9-11 truth science and being led away from the truth about what happened.

    This is complicated by the fact that what IS true is that 9-11 was used a BS reason for wars and taking away our 4th amendment rights and trashing the bill of rights in general. No doubt about that outcome.

    It hardly matters whether it was a bunch of crazy Islamists ot crazy .01%er or zionists… you don’t start wars with a false pretense murdering innocents. And you don’t take the rights of Americans away.. or use torture and so forth because of 9-11.

    The fundamental problems are NOT an inside job… but a system which has, as I wrote above… slowly evolved LEGALLY into a neo fuedal proto fascist state since 1963 when there was a coup in the USA and the CIA established itself as all powerful and untouchable. The CIA and the like are fascist institutions and they must be taken down… gotten rid of. We need to get money out of politics… level the playing field for ALL candidates and have term limits because we don’t need dynasties in government. We need to get rid of the huge media monopolies which feed us propaganda…not information. We need to get rid of all the surveillance.

    And we need to downside the DOD to deal with realistic threats which are basically NONE… as I don’t expect any invasions. Non state terrorism will cease to target the USA if the USA gets out of the countries where we are not wanted and engage in oppression of indigenous people. We don’t need to be the cop of the world. Let the UN deal with it.

    There are many positive things which can be done to create a sane and just world. But none of them can happen WITHIN the USA system at the present time. It’s passed the point of no return. This is a sad reality. And capitalism may have brought about climate change and it has wrecked the world’s economy… fostering enormous poverty and misery… all for the almighty dollar to land in already bloated investment accounts of the 1%ers and the .01%ers.

    I am more pessimistic because I see things getting worse at a quickening pace. We’re heading for a cliff in many ways. And I don’t think Sibel or Chris Hedges… or Glenn Greenwald and certainly not Richard Gage can stop it. I appreciate the passion and humility of Ms Edmonds. I suppose it IS important to read the new stories she posts at BF. With almost no exception they all are about how rotten things are here, there and everywhere.

    If I didn’t sail or attend ballet or see art and so forth I would have been driven insane a long time ago.

    I’d like to know what your strategy is… I support those who I can in any way I can… who are doing the right thing. But aside from actions like OWS and occasional strikes by workers… I see nothing coming from the left… but passivity, analysis and waiting… for the next shoe to drop.

  20. Look:

    12-12-12 Scalpers: Benefit Concert Fights Against Reselling Of Tickets

  21. or this excellent analysis:

    http://seaton-newslinks.blogspot.com/

  22. On foundations… The foundation of this republican would be the U.S.Constitution. Things obviously have not turned out so well, however. Is that the fault of the Constitution and its founders though? They gave it a mechanism for correcting its flaws, and it has done so in the past (e.g. 3/5ths of a person and all that). One alteration that I think it is high time for is in the tax code. If we are disgusted with how our government uses our funding to commit atrocities, then we should have the legal means of depriving it of our funds. That could be accomplished simply by amending the tax code to enable a dollar for dollar tax deduction for donations to non-profit organisations of the tax-payer’s choosing. (Donate the amount of tax you owe to orgs. instead and the result is you owe the feds nothing). This revision of the foundation would also have the result of making Foundations no longer the exclusive playground of the .00001 percent in advancing their dubious agendas, as Sibel has often discussed here.

    The only question is, how do we get from here to there? The system, particularly elections, is completely rigged at every step of the process. That is the dilemma.

  23. correction: “The foundation of this republic…”

  24. ROro,

    The constitution with the bill of rights and the various amendments is not all that bad… but in total it’s extremely outdated and needs to be re written and then FOLLOWED. My comments have mentioned a number of times that the system has been legally turned into a proto fascist neo feudal system which does not permit the needed corrections from being made. If you think of it as a playing field… it’s been so tilted that the one side can’t possible win or make progress. It’s not only taxes, and finance (federal reserve, fractional reserve banking, fiat currency, derivative financial products ) but a corrupted media, and oversized national security state which consumed most of the resources and causes most of the environment destruction.. along with corporation… it’s the justice system, the health care system… the education system, It’s all morphed into means to make a few few wealthy and who are completely unaccountable even when they are caught in wrong doing. And of course we have all those who participated in getting is here and who now tell us … oooops we need to fix it. But they are no longer listened to because they are considered functionally disruptive to the status quo.

    Of course we need to inform the public of this reality. one which is so frightening that they don’t know how to deal with it or what to do. The messages are always the same.. waste, fraud, abuse, loss of rights, mismanagement, wrong headed agendas, illegal, unethical and immoral conduct, destruction of the environment and threats to the climate… and seemingly an expectation that the system can right itself. Oh really?

    It’s not a dilemma. It’s cognitive dissonance. We’re trapped and all we can do it scream our hair is on fire… or if we become too much trouble you are disappeared.

  25. Again, I beg to differ, SanderO (without the attack). The negativity summarized in your last paragraph deserves a reply.

    Whatever you do – whether it is to stand up for justice at work, blow a whistle, support a website – you cannot know the end result. You don’t know how much one little action will change things.

    The point is that there is freedom, peace, and justice in taking the action. It is an end in itself.

    I find that you are continually projecting a pointless do nothing stance, which will lead to further apathy.

    Every time you mention the threat of assassination – which has been more than a once recently – you seem to me to be trying to suck the life out of the reader.

    What is your point? If it is all pointless, then what are you doing here? There must be a reason, so why don’t you express that part, beyond the doom and gloom, which is no way to live.

  26. @ROro, to get there from here might require a few key dominoes to fall. That’s where the leadership from former insiders comes in. It also might require some small unknowable action on our part.

    Here’s a video to boost our spirits. It almost brings tears of satisfaction to my eyes every time I watch it.

  27. Xicha,
    I use the www to be informed… and it enables me to support what I think is doing good work… I also can express my views and cirtiques however negative they may be.

    Most of the articles have a depressing take away even on this site. There are people, young mostly who are taking action and who need to much more than I do. They have a lot of years ahead of them. I don’t.

    I have done research on 9-11… but it happens to not agree with what your views are. I do what feels right. I don’t tell anyone else what to do… as long as it’s ethical and compassionate.

  28. Xicha,

    OK well according to Wayne Madsen, Webster Tarpley and others, a coup attempt was recently made to oust Obama via the September surprise that was Benghazi… I’m not so sure, had they succeeded, that we would be better off. Can extra-constitutional measures restore the constitution? That’s quite a gamble… It could very well be a harbinger of a chaos of succession much like the latter years of the Roman Empire.

    As for The Coup video… very interesting, they remake the Wiz scene that you may recall takes place in the World Trade Center…

    http://www.veoh.com/watch/e116807jM7mcmY9?h1=Emerald+City+Sequence+-+Green%2C+Red%2C+Gold

    The Coup in 2001 was scheduled to print their infamous WTC cover on Sept. 11…

    http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=the_coup_1

    Just another oddity.

  29. I tend to support the coup attempt theory myself. I really respect the work Tarpley and Madsen do and so the whole premise makes perfect sense. Also, I think both authors have linked the sacking of many military chiefs over the last month as a retaliation from the “Obama faction”. (Petraeus, et al) I’m particulary intrigued at the demotion of Charles Gaouette, who was heavily involved in the whole Osama “burial at sea” bit.

  30. ROro, thanks for the info; I have never watched The Wiz. And that album cover was spooky.

    To be clear, I don’t support any extra-constitutional actions and take The Coup’s song, as well as my reference to dominoes, as figurative expressions symbolizing the prosecution of significant individuals/issues, which could lead to a sequence of further prosecutions. This strategy might allow us to leap-frog directly to game changes. One particular example would be encouraging Sibel’s multiple, independent sources on the shoot-down of flight 93, to blow the whistle in public.

    RE the sept surprise you and gogetem mentioned, are you saying the coup would have been to have O lose the election to R as a result of the B attack?

    Thanks again.

  31. Yes, I think that was the plan: Use Benghazi to give Obama a “September Surprise”.

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