Agenda Driven News

“Americans have been well armed for several centuries, but “gun violence” is new. Why?”

AgendaDrivenI have known for a long time that US news is agenda-driven. Tonight (December 18) I was made aware of the extent to which agenda-driven US news drives the news of the rest of the world.

For reasons unbeknownst to me, Russia Today Moscow requested a live TV interview via Skype about the Newtown, Connecticut, school shootings that killed 20 young children and several adults. I was interested to know what was Moscow’s interest in the shootings, and I agreed to the interview.

I was surprised to see that RT Moscow’s interest was to spread the official US story of the shootings and to ask me if I thought “assault weapons” would be banned as a consequence.

Many things can be an assault weapon. A baseball bat, a knife, a fist, a foot, a single shot .22 rifle, a double-barrel shotgun, a fireplace poker, a six-shot revolver, a brick, a sword, a bow and arrow, a lance. A person can add many items to this short list.

Gun-control advocates have defined “assault weapon” to be a semi-automatic civilian version of military weapons, such as AR-15, the civilian version of the military M-16, and AK-47. During the Clinton administration the civilian version of these weapons was not permitted to have various harmless features because the features made the rifles have a military appearance, and the weapons were restricted to magazines that held no more than ten rounds.

Today 20 and 30 round magazines are available. For a professional, the capacity of the magazines is immaterial. With experience a person can change clips in a second. A button is pushed, the clip drops out and a new one is inserted. For reasons hard to follow, gun control advocates think that a ten-round clip turns an “assault weapon” into something else.

I told RT Moscow that the United States was the most complete police state in human history. Thanks to modern technology, Washington is able to spy on its subjects far beyond the capabilities of Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler. Even George Orwell’s imagination in his dystopian novel, 1984, has been surpassed by Washington’s current practice. The “war on terror” is the excuse for the American Police State.

A police state, I said, was inconsistent with an armed population, and as all other constitutional amendments have fallen, the sole remaining amendment, the Second Amendment, will not survive much longer.

But why RT Moscow’s focus on “assault weapons”? The accused, Adam Lanza, was immediately declared guilty. According to the Associated Press, the Newtown, Connecticut medical examiner, Dr H. Wayne Carver said that “all the victims of the Connecticut elementary school shooting were killed up close by multiple rifle shots.”
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Yet Fox News (http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/20346133/reports-of-multiple-dead-including-1-child-from-ct-elementary-school-shooting ) reports that “A CNN reporter said police recovered three weapons at the scene: a Glock and a Sig-Sauer, which are handguns, as well as a .223 Bushmaster rifle. The rifle was in the back seat of the car the gunman drove to the school, the handguns were inside the school.”

The same Fox News report says: “Security measures implemented this year at Sandy Hook [the school] kept doors locked during class hours, and people have to be buzzed in before entering. There is a camera to view whoever enters the building.” If this report is correct, how did an armed Lanza gain entry to the school?

I tried to point out to RT Moscow that these news reports indicate that the accused dead gunman, whom no one can interrogate, if he is indeed the culprit, killed the children with handguns, not with an “assault rifle” left in the car, but that the medical examiner said the children were killed with rifle shots.

The discrepancy is obvious. Either the news reports are incorrect, the medical examiner is wrong, or someone other than Adam Lanza shot the children.

This was too much for RT Moscow’s news anchor. She cut me off with her statement that the children were dead by whatever gun. Yet, the focus of the program was on “assault rifles.” This focus was reinforced when I was asked to stay online for a post-interview question.

The question from RT Moscow was whether I thought assault weapons would be banned. I answered that I thought all guns would be banned. I had already told the TV anchor that I thought that all guns would be taken away from US subjects, but that I doubted the efficacy of the ban. I told the news anchor that during the early part of the 20th century, the US, in all its wisdom, had a ban on alcohol, but alcohol was everywhere available. The alcohol ban was the origin of the crime syndicates’ fortunes. Today we have the drug ban, going back decades. The result is that drugs are everywhere, and drug syndicates are making billions. It will not be much different with a gun ban. England has a gun ban, but criminals have guns, and today the formerly unarmed British police are heavily armed. When I lived in England, guns were not banned and the police carried nightsticks, not firearms.

The focus on “assault weapons” is puzzling for another reason. According to news reports Lanza had a personality or mental disorder, or perhaps he was just different.

Regardless, he was on medication. So does the blame lie with guns or with medication?

As the agenda is to ban guns, the blame is placed on guns.

In the previous mass shooting at the Colorado movie theater, eyewitness accounts differed from the official account, and according to news accounts the suspect was involved with the government in some sort of mind control experiments and was found after the shooting sitting in a car in the movie theater parking lot.

Similarly, the Connecticut school shooting has puzzling aspects. In the real time report to the police, a teacher says that she saw “two shadows running past the gym.” (http://sgtreport.com/2012/12/so-many-questions-too-few-answers-was-the-sandy-hook-massacre-an-organzied-false-flag-operation/ )The police radio recording also reports two men in a van at the school stopped and detained, and various news sources report that the police arrested a man in the nearby woods. The man says, “I didn’t do it,” but how would a man out in the woods know what had just happened? There are no TVs to watch in the woods; yet, the man denied doing the shooting. Very strange.

What often happens is that there are a number of initial false reports, such as in the Connecticut case the report that Lanza’s mother was a teacher at the school and was killed at the school, that Lanza had also killed his father, and that Lanza’s brother might have been involved. Any discrepancies in the official story then get thrown out with the false reports. As the media simply goes along with the official story and does not investigate, it is impossible to know what really happened. People just accept the official story.

It seems odd, however, that RT Moscow would uncritically follow the US media in reporting the official story after experiencing, for example, the US media’s intentional misreporting of the Georgian-Russian war, which was started by the former Soviet republic of Georgia but blamed on Russia. Does RT Moscow really believe the US media that the US missile bases surrounding Russia are directed at Iran?

Americans have been well armed for several centuries, but “gun violence” is new. Why?

Are there more disturbed people? More medicated people? Have Americans lost self-control, their moral conscience? Are Americans being molded by violent movies and video games and by eleven years of their government’s slaughter of other peoples? Have Americans lost empathy for others?

Tom McNamara, a lecturer at the French National Military Academy, asks: “Do Arabs Cry For Their Children Too?”  (http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/12/18/do-arabs-cry-for-their-children-too/print )

The Connecticut school shooting is a tragedy in more ways than one. Children lost their lives, families lost their children, and the tragedy is being used to disarm Americans faced with a police state growing in power and menace.

# # # #

Paul Craig Roberts, Boiling Frogs Post contributing author, is a former Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury and former associate editor of the Wall Street Journal. He has been reporting on executive branch and cases of prosecutorial abuse for two decades. He has written or co-written eight books, contributed chapters to numerous books, and has published many articles in journals of scholarship. Mr. Roberts has testified before congressional committees on 30 occasions on issues of economic policy, and has been a critic of both Democratic and Republican administrations. You can visit his website here.

<strong>© PaulCraigRoberts.org


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  1. According to the Associated Press, the Newtown, Connecticut medical examiner, Dr H. Wayne Carver said that “all the victims of the Connecticut elementary school shooting were killed up close by multiple rifle shots.”

    In fact, in his live interview, what Dr. Carver said further was that of the 7 autopsies he performed himself, all were killed with 3 to 11 rifle shots – from a distance – not close up.

  2. avatar Crownv1c46@@ says:

    Great article. Here in England I often watch RT, Sky News, BBC World and Press TV all at once on a story like this. Quite a disturbing experience!
    The US media’s influence is just like you say- a huge gravitational field that pulls any English-language “news” service towards its event horizon.
    We shouldn’t be too hard on RT- after all, they don’t believe their own propaganda!

  3. The language is indeterminate… the reports are often mistaken and fogged by poor reporting and speculation and one person repeating what they heard and that being repeated and so on. It all comes off as a confused story… and all sorts of conspiracy theorists who were not there have it all figured out. Who do you trust?

    This was some sort of staged event to inspire gun control so that the guns rights would be removed along with the guns followed by rounding everyone up and placing them in concentration camps…

  4. Mr Roberts.

    After reading your conclusion and paranoia I find that I can no longer consider you a serious person.

    Americans don’t need to be armed and if the government is such a threat to the people, I suggest you organize your well armed militia and take out the government before they take your guns.

    No thank you.. My suggestion is you and your libertarian buddies all move to texas and succeed from the USA… Good riddance. You can have all the guns down there you want and stay down there.

  5. SanderO- Dr. Roberts has identified important evidentiary inconsistencies which must be explained. No one is saying this was in fact a “black flag” operation, but no inquest can avoid addressing and resolving these questions, since they are too germane to the investigation.

  6. @egd: Personally, I think it was a black/false flag operation :-p.

    Anyway, like any good investigator, I would certainly like more evidence. I’m not actually investigating the case, so I don’t need to worry about having enough evidence to prosecute anyone, I just want to determine for myself who I think was guilty of the crime. Right now, my suspicion falls on a few things he mentioned:
    He certainly doesn’t say that Lanza wasn’t involved, so I’m certainly not ruling him out. But there’s a lot more:
    2 shadows running past the gym

    The police radio recording also reports two men in a van at the school stopped and detained, and various news sources report that the police arrested a man in the nearby woods. The man says, “I didn’t do it,” but how would a man out in the woods know what had just happened? There are no TVs to watch in the woods; yet, the man denied doing the shooting. Very strange.

    Indeed. Some might even say this has the making of a conspiracy -.-

    Paul Roberts raises another good question:
    The same Fox News report says: “Security measures implemented this year at Sandy Hook [the school] kept doors locked during class hours, and people have to be buzzed in before entering. There is a camera to view whoever enters the building.” If this report is correct, how did an armed Lanza gain entry to the school?

    The question is certainly a legitimate one. Not only that, but if there is a camera to view whoever enters the building, shouldn’t we have footage of Lanza (and/or whoever else came in) entering the building?

  7. Unfortunately, very unfortunately, after researching 9/11 I can no longer look upon any big media event/tragedy without suspicion. I really think that once you have become aware of media manipulation for a desired outcome, you can never go back again. And I do take offence to the insinuation that you are somehow “disrespecting the children” if you bring up questions/inconsistancies in the official story. How so? Wanting to get to the truth is somehow disrespectful? Its eerily similar to attacking one’s patriotism for questioning 9/11.

  8. gogetem wrote:
    Unfortunately, very unfortunately, after researching 9/11 I can no longer look upon any big media event/tragedy without suspicion. I really think that once you have become aware of media manipulation for a desired outcome, you can never go back again. And I do take offence to the insinuation that you are somehow “disrespecting the children” if you bring up questions/inconsistancies in the official story. How so? Wanting to get to the truth is somehow disrespectful? Its eerily similar to attacking one’s patriotism for questioning 9/11.

    I agree in part. It’s unfortunate in the sense that we’ve left the world where you could just watch the mass media news and expect to be decently informed by doing so. On the other hand, I pity people who still think as I do; that the mass media is a decent source of information. It’s been said that “what you don’t know can’t harm you”, but it’s simply not true. Take, for example, vaccinations. And I shudder to think of what soldiers who actually believe that Osama bin Laden was behind the event of 9/11; they may be dying for a lie. I’ve actually found that some of the most die hard defenders of the official story regarding 9/11 are in fact people who are, or were, in the military. It stands to reason; if you’re willing to die for your government, you’d probably want to be pretty sure that your government is actually worth dying for. I’m sure many would say that it’s their country they’re fighting for, and that’s fine, but I think most are equally aware that they have to follow what their country’s government decides. On the other side of the coin, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that one of the most well known films regarding 9/11 was produced in part by an ex soldier.

  9. What Roberts and other people who see conspiracies by the state wherever they look is their failure to realize that ALL groups are engaged in PR and spin. ALL groups will come forth with an interpretation of a major event and tehir interpretation will be invariably filtered by their agenda… or world view.

    If you don’t trust the government/officials… everything they say will be seen as having some sort of agenda to take some right away from the people or advance some fascist anti democratic meme.

    PR is the MOST important aspect of our culture. We know longer are delivered facts and information about the world. We are fed SPIN. Read Bernays.

    The official response to 9/11 was completely predictable. It was driven by the MIC who was itchin’ for war… The entire natioanal security state saw 9/11 as a manna from heaven. It delivered to them anything they could dream about.

    The NRA will spin mass shootings as an opportunity to demand that we have MORE guns to protect ourselves.

    The gun control advocates will argue that Newtown is a poster child example for getting guns off the street.

    The authorities will argue for less guns in circulation… they apparently don’t want law enforcement facing cop killer weaponry… whether true of not.

    Every group will spin the event. Let me repeat Every group will spin the event… to advance their cause/interest/agenda.

    The general public will simply want peace and security. Some will want guns given to principals and teachers, armed security guards… locked buildings… security fences… surveillance cameras. Others argue if there were no guns there would be no shootings and death from gun shot wounds. In China on the same day a deranged individual with a knife attacked 20+ children, but none died as a result. Still crazy, but less lethal.

    PR and spin is huge. The media is how PR is conveyed. So now we see not only media OWNED by the powerful MIC such as GE’s ownership of NBC… but most of it has been filled or *infiltrated* with people with agendas. Fox news is not news but SPIN…

    The man convicted of a killing in a Mosque responded to the judge that he didn’t know a thing about Islam except what he learned from Fox News. Ideas can influence, poison minds and people end up dead.

    It’s virtually impossible to operate with ONLY facts and no bias or absent a *political view*. We are informed by the media… we don’t have first hand information. We are forced to trust what we believe are reliable, honest sources with no agenda who display critical thinking. This is hardly possible. Everywhere you look you see how media and information is distorted, corrupted and false. Witness the embedded reporting of Military activities… or the *biography of Petreus* written by his mistress!

    You have to read between the lines and understand that EVERY report, article, news story is PR.. told with a slant… a message, a sub text and agenda.

    In Newtown incident is hardly different. But Paul Craig Robert’s reveals his extreme bias when he presents it as a part of a government conspiracy to take away your guns. He’s useless as a truth teller and no better than the officials who are in control of the news flow and spin it for THEIR agenda.

    The 9/11 truth movement is guilty of this exact same bias. They examine the official story… the mother of all spin and PR and conclude since it is demonstrably full of holes… that 9-11 was an inside job. Why? because only the insiders had the means motive and opportunity… guilty as charged without a shred of evidence other than deception (but isn’t that all they ever do is spin? YESSSSSSSSSS)

    The state couldn’t help itself after 9/11 and engaged in the most blatant spin an lies to push their agenda. Once 9-11 was accepted they figured anything goes… yellow cake… WMDs… anthrax… The spin masters were working overtime in the PR shops making this sh*t up and passing it to their “reliable” media bots such as Judith Miller, David Ignatius and many many many other *reporters*, talking heads, editors and so forth.

    Truth is out is out the window lies abound. Check.. we got it. But knowing you were deceived and lied to does not reveal the truth. It only exposes the liars. And this is where Mr Roberts and his ilk show absence of critical thinking and the obvious agenda they possess and the fact that they engage in exactly the same thing they accuse the state of … deception, agenda driven misleading, reporting of an incident.

    Robert’s caught doing exactly what he complained about. Kettle calling the pot black.

    Nailed…

  10. I thought readers would enjoy reading what sort of thinking is spreading amongst the *conspiracy people”

    “By Jim Fetzer

    Mossad death squads slaughtered American children at Sandy Hook
    Students at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, are being guided to get out of the school after the December 14, 2012 deadly shooting.
    Students at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, are being guided to get out of the school after the December 14, 2012 deadly shooting.
    Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:27PM GMT
    16
    1459

    67

    By James H. Fetzer

    The choice appears to be covertly revealing, where “Sandy” means guardian of men (as an allusion to guns) and “Hook” as a euphemism for hooking, gathering or confiscating the only weapons that DHS fears. And who better to slaughter American children than Israelis, who deliberately murder Palestinian children?

    While liberals and some conservatives believe the time has come to ban assault weapons, the graver threat to our nation’s security has been swept under the rug.

    The Sandy Hook massacre appears to have been a psy op intended to strike fear in the hearts of Americans by the sheer brutality of the massacre, where the killing of children is a signature of terror ops conducted by agents of Israel.

    This is being used as powerful incentive for banning assault rifles, where most of the public is unaware of the fact that the Department of Homeland Security has acquired 1.5 billion rounds of .40 caliber, hollow-point ammunition, which is not ever permissible in warfare under the Geneva Conventions.

    A Senate Subcommittee has issued a report (3 October 2012) based upon its review of 680 “fusion center” reports (from 2009-2001) and found not a single indication of any domestic terrorist threat-not one! None! Since the only domestic “terrorist threats” are ones contrived by the government, especially the FBI, the public needs to know.

    This information-as well as the existence of more than 300 FEMA camps and special boxcars to carry dissidents to them-has been deliberately withheld from the American people, because if they were aware of the facts of the matter, it would become obvious that those camps and ammunition are intended to be used against them.

    When DHS is gearing up to conduct a massive civil war against the American people, what better excuse could there be for banning assault weapons than the massacre of 20 innocent children at Sandy Hook Elementary School?

    The choice appears to be covertly revealing, where “Sandy” means guardian of men (as an allusion to guns) and “Hook” as a euphemism for hooking, gathering or confiscating the only weapons that DHS fears. And who better to slaughter American children than Israelis, who deliberately murder Palestinian children?

    Mike Harris of Veterans Today has exposed the pattern relating what happened there to earlier assaults: “This is exactly what Israel did in Norway; the political party that voted sanctions against Israel was retaliated against by a ‘lone gunman’ who killed 77 children. This is what Israel always does, they go after the children.

    “It is what they do in Gaza every day. It is what was done in Norway. It is what happened at Sandy Hook. Nobody buys the ‘one gunman’ story anymore, not with the Gabby Giffords’ shooting, not with the Aurora “Batman” shooting, certainly not with Breveik, and certainly not in Connecticut.”

    The most likely scenario, given what we know now, is that Adam Lanza and his mother killed the day before. Adam’s body picked up by local police. He was attired in a SWAT outfit, including body armor, and stored in the school.

    A three-man team entered the school, one was arrested in the school–cuffed and put on the lawn–two went out the back door, one was arrested, the third appears to have escaped. You can find this on helicopter videos.

    Those arrested are currently not in police custody; their names were never released. That is a telling sign that we are being sold a story that is based on fiction, not on fact. What else are the local police concealing?

    A parallel situation in Aurora, where there appear to have been multiple participants, but the police concealed information about them. The DC Sniper, John Allen Muhammad, was even a active member of Delta Force, but the public was not informed.

    His assistant in this killing spree, Lee Boyd Malvo, had been detained in Seattle but was released, even though he was an illegal alien, where INS has refused to explain how that happened. Did “higher authority” intervene?

    Nidal Malik Hasan, the US Army Major who killed 13 and wounded 29 during a rampage at Ft. Hood, Texas, even sat next to the Director of Homeland Security during an event at George Washington University. Can that be coincidental?

    When the “long gunman” cover story falls apart, then the national press, which William Colby told us was infiltrated by agents of the CIA-“The agency owns everyone of significance in the major media”-resorts to stories of Mind Control and use of drugs.

    We have to see through the smoke and mirrors. These attacks typically involve three-man shooting teams, where, once the story is tainted with bogus MK/Ultra conspiracy disinformation, crucial data, like the assault rifle the Sandy Hook having been left in his car, swiftly disappears.

    Lenin and Trotsky were terrorists. Lenin was an outspoken proponent of terrorism. The founder of the Lukid Party and sixth Prime Minister of Israel was an Irgun terrorist. Study its history. No nation in the world cares more about its own interests and less about those of the United State than Israel.

    The bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946, was a stunning example. The attack on the USS Liberty and Israel’s bombing of its own Embassy and Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires in 1992 and 1994 are other illustration.

    Those who study 9/11 are all too aware of the role of the Neo-Cons and the Mossad. But the American press covers it up-and Congress is controlled by AIPAC. As Bill Casey, former CIA Director, observed, “Our disinformation program will be complete when everything the American public believes is false.” Sandy Hook is the latest example.

    JF/JR”

  11. 1-SanderO: You may provide a link for outside articles, or maybe a short excerpt or two, but don’t take up the space with other people’s junk.

    2-I consder PCR’s article to be fair- questioning. That’s what critical-thinking people should be doing: questioning. I don’t see a single thing there as conclusive, propaganda oriented. None.

    3- With #2, it is my observation. As far as your responses to me piece (Whose Gov), I now for sure you missed the entire point. What you say I mean, has nothing to do with I meant. You simply don’t get it. On the other hand, you appear to fall into a category of people I have encountered more than once in my life. Here are the characteristics:

    “I know it all. I am superior to all. I see everything, and others don’t. I am an expert. I am one of the chosen. I have an obligation to make people see everything the way I see, because I know it all and I am chosen. Why everybody is so wrong? I think everybody is wrong. Sibel should have said this. PCR is a gun-loving texan militia. All 9/11 activists who are considering ‘gov direct role’: are conspiracy theorists…”

    I am not directing the following to you per se, but those similar people I have encountered also have the following qualities:

    “Have never held on to a single trade/job for more than a few years. Either have married 3 or 5 times, or never been able to foster a long-term relationship (because the other parties are always ‘wrong’ or always imperfect). They’ve never carried a responsibility of raising children or be responsible good parents. No long-term solid friendships-relationships. Bitter-because other people do not see their superiority, and the other people seem to get SICK & TIRED of hearing this negative morose who only is destructive and critical & bitchy. …”

    Anyhow, I think you are intelligent, and I don’t see anything that is directly disrespectful or crude or anything, but I’ve been getting notes/e-mails from people who feel a bit ‘sick of it,’ so please:

    1- Do not post other people’s junk and take up space for that @ BFP.

    2- I know you have a lot of time, and have tons to share with the world, and I believe many of our readers have come to know and understand where you come from, so maybe you should spend all this energy try to enlighten 1000s of other forums out there with millions of followers…

    3- Thank you for being understanding, and I hope this comment won’t bring several more novellas of reponses from you @ BFP.

    Regards,
    Sibel

  12. Sibel,
    I want to apologize first for posting the junk. As I am semi retired I do have time to share ideas… and learn on/from the web. This is not the only forum I contribute comments to.

    Perhaps I mis read your post. I don’t find much agreement with most of what this government does. Not in my name is how I express it.

    I don’t think your description fits me as I’ve been an architect for over 40 yrs and we have 2 little grand daughters. I am very opinionated, but I respect others opinions. I do not hold myself to be an expert on anything but me… and my personal experience I don’t see myself as superior to anyone… especially on political views.

    I appreciate the opportunity to dialogue with others in a forum which is uncensored where civil discourse is encouraged.

    I will limit my comments in the future. And this is my only response to you and the readers of BF about this matter.

    I appreciate what you have done and will continue to support you/BF.

    Let’s hope for something better for 2013.

  13. I also really appreciate all you have done Sibel, loved your book and the “Killing the Messenger” documentary. I also wanted to defend SanderO, but I’d only just arrived 2 days ago and decided that it’d be best if I just stayed quiet until someone else said something :-p.

    Another point I wanted to make, I think the comment section is nice but I don’t think it’s really built to accomodate discussions. I know that this site has a forum, but I think that having to wait for one’s post to be approved (and that taking a fair amount of time) kind of discourages any discussion from really getting going. Sibel may want it this way, but I’m thinking maybe we could make or find a forum where we could be a bit more informal when discussing what Sibel and others here have to say? As I’ve mentioned in the past, I’m in an external forum, but most of the people there don’t seem to care much for those who disagree with the mainstream media; they tend to chuck it all into the “conspiracies” sub forum, which is usually the place I post in there. I’m also in conspiracy forums, but not too much seems to happen in the ones I’m in.

  14. I find the news reporting in the MSM is basically unreliable agenda driven infotainment.

    @ Scott… you don’t have to defend me… I’m human and I make mistakes. We’re all guests here and have to act as such.

  15. @SanderO, I agree with your assessment of the MSM, I find it to be a shame that there are still so many people who believe in it rather blindly. And I know everyone makes mistakes, just felt that you hadn’t made -that- many mistakes, lol :-) .

  16. Speaking for the voiceless. Send Snowflakes to Newtown. This was the idea of a young African American college grad after I had been playing music with her, a young tech geek drummer, and a Bengali electric guitar player. I was playing Sitar and we were jamming with a Tibetan bowl in the background. Let’s counter the dark side with positive actions like the bass player suggested.

  17. Simon, thank you for that!
    Yes, let us send beautiful snowflakes, sprinkled with crystals of all the colors – wonderful healing crystal-coated snowflakes. We can all blow them onward with a breath of love. They really work. Simply hold them in the palm of your hand and blow them where you will. We can do this . . .

  18. avatar jschoneboom says:

    I understand where SanderO is coming from, and I think I understand where Mr. Roberts is coming from too. I agree with some of what they’ve each said, and disagree with some of both as well. The kinda funny thing to me is what I like about PCR is basically the same thing I like about SanderO: Agree with them or not, they’re both a couple of regular grumps with good critical thinking skills who make up their own minds and aren’t afraid to say it out loud!

    Gotta love ‘em…

    My main response to Mr. Roberts’ article is that I just don’t see how having a bunch of guns of any type is going to help you out against the police state if and when it comes for you. Those guys have tanks and bombs and missiles and chemical weapons and total surveillance and dirty tricks and all sorts. Me I’ll take my chances with civil disobedience! I don’t like living around all them guns….

  19. @jschone, they don’t have tanks and missiles for every american family. They have, however, ordered enough bullets to kill everyone in America multiple times, assuming they could find the people to do it:
    http://www.ketknbc.com/news/pov/us-government-orders-hollow-point-bullets-for-its-agencies

    But if a lot of those Americans are armed, it won’t work out so well. If they are unarmed, however. Reminds me of a line in V for Vendetta:

    ***
    Dominic: What do you think will happen?
    Finch: What usually happens when people without guns stand up to people *with* guns.
    ***

  20. It seems that the official story is unravelling. I’ve been participating in a thread discussing whether or not something is fishy regarding the Sandy Hook shooting, and I believe we’ve found a lot of evidence that there is:
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/conspiracy-theories/146349-sorry-going-there-but-sandy-woods-conspiracy.html

  21. Me and some fellow posters over in a forum have been discussing the Sandy Hook massacre, digging up various reports and articles on the subject as we went. I think we’ve uncovered quite a bit, but there’s still a long way to go. Here’s the link to the thread if someone would like to see:
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/conspiracy-theories/146349-sorry-going-there-but-sandy-woods-conspiracy.html

  22. Sorry about the double post, any moderator, feel free to delete this one and one of the above posts.

  23. I suppose there are some very creepy people inside the national security state that would not think twice about taking out citizens who challenged their authority. You can see how the state dealt with OWS. THey couldn’t have decent spread and demand reform. They’ll nip that in the bud as quickly as they can.

    I can’t envision a full on assault by the state (military style) on the citizens. The state IS made up of the brothers, fathers, cousins, mothers, daughters and so forth… of the governed. Most who join the ranks of the national security… cops, soldiers basically believe that the enemy are outsiders, invaders (now Moslems and Mexicans)… Do you think that the MIC will run tanks down the main Street in Shaker Heights… or Greenwich? Do you think cousins will gun down cousins, sons mow down their fathers and grandfathers? Really?

  24. SanderO wrote:
    I suppose there are some very creepy people inside the national security state that would not think twice about taking out citizens who challenged their authority.

    Agreed.

    SanderO wrote:
    You can see how the state dealt with OWS.

    I believe you’re speaking of Occupy Wall Street, and yes, that was a good example of the state’s callous disregard for protesters, although personally I think that examples such as the planned Operation Northwoods (which JFK nixed, shortly before being assassinated himself) to go to war with Cuba, the second Gulf of Tonkin incident (a complete fabrication) to go to war with Vietnam, the Oklahoma bombing (after which, the standards for Habeus Corpus were “tightened”: http://www.webcitation.org/5xGXWAzia) and 9/11 (who many believe had to have had some within the government atleast allowing it to happen) to invade Afghanistan and then Iraq, are better examples. In the cases of the Oklahoma City bombing and 9/11, they even had one particular investigator playing a prominent role in both, an engineer named Gene Corley:
    “[Gene Corley] was hired by FEMA to lead the entire WTC investigation, which at the time was termed an “assessment.” Six years earlier, Corley had also led the investigation into what happened at the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City, and the resulting report was found to have been very poorly done.[xiv] ”
    http://911blogger.com/news/2010-05-31/dusting-corley-official-response-discovery-energetic-materials-wtc-dust

    Also:
    http://stj911.org/ryan/TruthInCredentials.html

    SanderO wrote:
    They couldn’t have decent spread and demand reform. They’ll nip that in the bud as quickly as they can.
    I can’t envision a full on assault by the state (military style) on the citizens. The state IS made up of the brothers, fathers, cousins, mothers, daughters and so forth… of the governed.

    It wouldn’t happen all at once, ofcourse, but there are signs that they are “testing” the military to see how far they would go. Perhaps the first step is in trying to ensure that none in the military protest too loudly concerning what the government is doing:
    http://www.salem-news.com/articles/august192012/marine-fakcebook-arrest-t.php

    As to the public in general, I think the TSA’s questionable practices at airports, as well as the increasingly draconian treatment of those who refuse to get vaccines are signs of what is to come. Here’s an article on the history of vaccinations in the U.S.:
    http://www.nvic.org/vaccine-laws/tracking-system-and-privacy/the-national-electronic-tracking-registry.aspx

    SanderO wrote:
    Most who join the ranks of the national security… cops, soldiers basically believe that the enemy are outsiders, invaders (now Moslems and Mexicans)… Do you think that the MIC will run tanks down the main Street in Shaker Heights… or Greenwich? Do you think cousins will gun down cousins, sons mow down their fathers and grandfathers? Really?

    No, I generally don’t. However, the military is a national thing, and so it is unlikely that family members would be killing family members. Furthermore, I think the plan is to offer people increasingly frightening choices: Get vaccinated “or else”:
    http://www.infowars.com/forced-vaccinations-quarantine-camps-health-care-interrogations-and-mandatory-decontaminations/

    Aside from the massachussets bill mentioned above, I also remember hearing a story of someone in the military speaking out that they were being trained to detain people who refused to be vaccinated.

  25. This explains our reality:

  26. avatar jschoneboom says:

    Love the Carlin bit. As for whether I can picture an actual military assault on Main Street USA, well, let’s just say I have a pretty good imagination. It would obviously have to be a case of total breakdown of social order. Peak Oil meets total unemployment and the evil bastards are revealed finally for what they really are for even Joe Punter to see and it’s Mad Max Mayhem on the streets. So I’d say we’re at least six moths away from that ;-) but yeah I can picture it in a pinch.

    And Scott75, I don’t know if you’ve done a missile count recently but I’d lay odds they had twenty for every man woman and child! Plus bombs! Gases of all descriptions!

    I’m not predicting any of this, mind you. I’m just saying that the argument “we need guns” based on “we have to be able to fight the government” is based on a pretty bonkers scenario, the only conceivable outcome of which is total carnage. We The People are badly outgunned and always will be. We need a better plan than that! To the extent I have any hope it’s based on something more along the lines of outsmarting them. Y’all ain’t Clint Eastwood and this ain’t the OK Corral.

    Or so it seems to me anyhow.

  27. The reality is that society requires the cooperation of the man and woman on the street… the workers in the factories… in the shops… the farmers… everyone has to play or the guys at the top are caught with their pants down. Let them fly their jets and yachts to their private islands. If they destroy us they destroy themselves. I think those in power get this. And so far no one has refused to play and they are not rounding people up in camps. Believe me… if they did… the whole thing would melt down.

    The US gov as stupid as it is and the MIC as selfish as they are are not going to wage all out war on the people… if the people won’t play.

    But the people need to know what they want when the emperor stands there naked and as in Animal Farm… they people get the conch…

  28. SanderO wrote:
    This explains our reality:

    I must admit that I’m surprised that you would hold this view Sander. I agree that many of those in power feel this way. However, I definitely believe that there are a few good people. Some politicians, such as Curt Weldon, Carolyn Maloney, and a few others I’m sure. I keep on thinking about Obama. I certainly believe that he’s facilitated a lot of bad things, but does he know what he’s doing is bad or is he being fooled into thinking that many of the bad things he’s doing are actually good?

  29. SanderO wrote:
    The reality is that society requires the cooperation of the man and woman on the street… the workers in the factories… in the shops… the farmers… everyone has to play or the guys at the top are caught with their pants down. Let them fly their jets and yachts to their private islands. If they destroy us they destroy themselves.

    They can’t get rid of all of us. If they did, who’d do all the grunt work :-p? However, they may feel that they don’t need a good many of us. One thing I definitely believe would put a halt to their acts is if people engaged in mass strikes; when this happens in countries, it tends to bring the powers that control things to their knees; if it’s done for a long enough time, it can bring about real change.

    SanderO wrote:
    I think those in power get this. And so far no one has refused to play and they are not rounding people up in camps. Believe me… if they did… the whole thing would melt down.

    I don’t know about that. I liken it to the motif of this site; of boiling frogs. Essentially, the idea is that if you were to put a frog in a pot of boiling water, he’d leap out immediately, but if you were to put him in a pot of warm water and then gradually increase the temperature, you could boil the frog. I don’t know if frogs would truly put up with this type of thing, but Nazy Germany shows just how far a country can go in the wrong direction.

    SanderO wrote:
    The US gov as stupid as it is and the MIC as selfish as they are are not going to wage all out war on the people… if the people won’t play.

    Not sure what MIC stands for, and I agree with you. But what if enough people do play?

    SanderO wrote:
    But the people need to know what they want when the emperor stands there naked and as in Animal Farm… the people get the conch…

    Conch?

  30. jschoneboom wrote:
    And Scott75, I don’t know if you’ve done a missile count recently but I’d lay odds they had twenty for every man woman and child!

    Well, we can certainly speculate various things. There is another issue though; do they want to be bombing the U.S. into smithereens or do they just want to do away with some of the people in it?

    jschoneboom wrote:
    Plus bombs! Gases of all descriptions!
    I’m not predicting any of this, mind you. I’m just saying that the argument “we need guns” based on “we have to be able to fight the government” is based on a pretty bonkers scenario, the only conceivable outcome of which is total carnage.

    I don’t know about that. Personally, I think that a lot of people in the military aren’t just going to gun/bomb/gas down the american people even if they’re ordered to. I’m fairly sure the powers that be know that. Therefore, I think it’s logical that they would want to make this easier; removing people’s guns seems like a viable plan in this regard.

    jschoneboom wrote:
    We The People are badly outgunned and always will be. We need a better plan than that!

    Personally, I live in Canada where gun laws are already much stricter then in the U.S. I certainly believe that some people having guns alone is not going to prevent the police state in the U.S. from tightening its grip. Personally, I’ve always been a strong believer in the notion that the pen (or perhaps more accurately word) is mighter then the sword (or whatever weapon is currently en vogue).

    jschoneboom wrote:
    To the extent I have any hope it’s based on something more along the lines of outsmarting them. Y’all ain’t Clint Eastwood and this ain’t the OK Corral. Or so it seems to me anyhow.

    I certainly think that will be part of it. I think the multi pronged approach will prevail.

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