Must Watch Video- Operation Gladio Part I: From Neo-Fascists to Mujahedeen (aka Al Qaeda)
Saturday, 2. February 2013
Unveiling the Curtain on the West’s Strategically Orchestrated & Executed Global Terror Campaign
This groundbreaking investigative video report is Part I of series on Operation Gladio produced by James Corbett of Corbett Report. The episode includes an introduction to Operation Gladio and interviews with Sibel Edmonds and Tom Secker.
As one of the most thoroughly-documented examples of a decades-long program of officially-sanctioned false flag terror, Operation Gladio remains a woefully under-reported piece of the War on Terror puzzle. Today we go behind the trite summarizations of this program to look at it in-depth, examine its roots, and discover how it is continuing to operate right through to the present day.
We urge you to help us disseminate this program and expose the ‘Criminal States’ Secrets.’ Thank You.
*For the full audio interview with Sibel Edmonds on Gladio Part I: Click Here
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Xicha Says:
Honestly, I think this is ALL we should talk about, from here on out. This subject puts everything else in perspective and frankly, most other subjects cannot be put in context without this subject.
But, it must be draining for you to put yourself on the line like this. And there’s always new things to talk about. But, whenever something this important/essential comes up, I always feel like saying “now we’re talking”.
So, maybe it’s not ALL we should talk about, but how do we keep this subject alive, constantly? Even if it’s just a background context for other stories and articles. How do we continue to reference Gladio B, so that we don’t forget what the context (of, say, today’s bombing at the embassy in Turkey) really is? Very timely, BTW.
Again, thank you Sibel, for being the ONLY ONE to really explain this story to the public and to do so with such validity as an actual witness to the truth. How can we thank you?
flogchopsuey Says:
Someone should contact Oliver Stone with this material. In addition, an equivalent of Gladio would probably have been implemented within Cuba, Allende’s Chile, etc. As a strategy of continuous world wide infiltration, even in the absence of military capacity, the mentality of the CIA is either you are with us or against us. Either way, absence from any theatre of political intercourse on the planet would have to be under the jurisdiction of at least one desk at the CIA, Pentagon, State Department, or their affiliated allies. By the way, the scope of BFP itself is also completely international at this point, so keeping that in mind, internet and translation opportunities should come to light. This would even enhance the attractiveness of the content to US based readers. For example, in its early days, The Economist and Financial Times audience overseas outnumbered US subscribers which later came to be a plus. Or even rock bands who have been well received internationally come home to a hero’s welcome. The bigger the pot, the harder it is to boil.
Jon Gold Says:
I once asked Paul Thompson if he thought “Al-Qaeda” was today’s version of Gladio, and he said “Yes.”
Hamish Says:
On the money – fantastic – really important thank you
Xicha Says:
John Dennis “Denny” Hastert
Was the Illinois-native Speaker of the House involved with these Gladio dealings, or was he too far outside Chicago?
tonywicher Says:
Sibel,
This was a fantastic interview. You were like an angel speaking words of pure truth. You have put together a picture of the world-wide operations of the Anglo-American imperial establishment since WW II as no one ever has. This is extremely useful intelligence analysis, the best I have seen. I can’t wait for Part II.
tonywicher Says:
flogchopsuey:
The Cuban version of Gladio was Operation Northwoods. Look it up. The operation was vetoed by Kennedy. It is the model for the 9/11/2001 attack.
flogchopsuey Says:
tonywicher:
Operation Northwoods, in my understanding, was conceived of AFTER the fall of Cuba to Castro. The nature of Gladio was that measures were to be in place PRIOR to friendly forces being over-run by an potential or likely opposition force such as the Soviet Union so that they would be in place to fight the enemy from within. Yet I appreciate your bringing up the false flag strategy which to me characterizes a post Gladio phase. In 1945 the world was defined by the so called independent nations of the west, the Soviet bloc, and the Chinese. In reality, the US dominated the west, emerging to replace Britain as a global empire. By the mid 1960s militarist fascists who are not accountable to citizens in any quarter of the west had seized power behind the scenes and so called elected politicians had become only pawns of this new global elite. The appearance of independent nation states in this region is now only a game of pretend. There is no longer any such thing as a Kennedy to veto anything. The melting pot that was once the US has been merged into all the other controlled territories. Instead of a melting pot of empowered individuals, as in the vision of Jefferson, we are now being slowly boiled alive. Rendered, as in a slaughter house, broken down into drugged zombies at the service of the plantation masters. Extraordinary rendition indeed. Our new invisible rulers at least deserve a name. They are not the US government. They are global in scope, and loyal only to their own kind and their own creed, or shall we call that greed.
remo Says:
So Gulen is CIA setting up all across the region. Makes sense.
Dennis Says:
flogchopsuey: Speaking of greed, perhaps it’s time to drag out that famous old quote of Winston Churchill – and give it new meaning.
“Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few”.
flogchopsuey Says:
Dennis:
The invention of leverage at every pivot point in modern culture may be the most singular characterization of the age we are now living in. The hockey stick chart, representing a point at which multiplication goes critical can be applied to the population bomb, fossil fuel consumption, the information revolution, the creation of debt and the associated explosive system of derivatives that serve as a scam/shell game, a system of agriculture on steroids that converts the food, organisms, and soil into toxic caricatures of themselves, and a language of politic in which every word is a pyramid of lies a mile high, a system of medicine so top heavy that accountability is impossible to unravel, institutions of education that have elevated administration while reducing the point of instruction to a chain gang. The groupthink has thus become wildly disassociated from reality, such that when you pay your debts/bills, the path of resources could travel around the planet several times before touching ground for all we know. Anything that is important that can be known can only be deduced when the maze is this complete, and thus at the top, the powers that be are unnamable, and we can know the system only by its fruits. Perhaps this is what Churchill meant when he said “The empires of the future are the empires of the mind”.
flogchopsuey Says:
tonywicher:
Lacking first hand experience and personal contacts in the domain of the black ops, I value BFP and commenters like you to keep me abreast of what has and continues to happen, and correct me on my history, thanks. After the Fukushima tidal waves someone pointed out an ancient landmark way up on a hill that demarked the high water mark from ages past, a clue that had obviously not been considered in the placement of the nuclear power facilities. I am reduced to looking for evidence of this caliber upon which to make definitive statements. The History Commons 9/11 timeline seems to meet this standard as far as I can tell, and is sufficient for anyone willing to open their mind to realize that the government version of events is an outrageous pack of disinformation and that a proper investigation is absolutely necessary. Speculations beyond this level of certainty tend to be problematic if used in mixed company.
I would advise you to notice carefully how Ms Edmonds and Mr. Corbett, Pepe Escobar and others chose their words. They don’t dodge the subject of 9/11 and other manufactured media charades like so many in the alternative press, but they also avoid endless conversations where they end up getting put on the defensive over an unnecessary level of speculative outreach. Thanks to them, the foundation we have to move forward is solid, and each blow can strike bone. I don’t rule out remote controlled planes or controlled demolition, in fact I have some private thoughts that extend to even more possible details, but then I also realize they are NOT as solid a landmark as the data we have on the “hijackers”, taped conversations of insiders like Wesley Clark, revelation of whistle-blowers, etc. etc. Considering how difficult it has been for the truth movement to gain traction and how unsavory so many of it images have been, let’s remember the crouching tiger has more bite than a tipsy giraffe. For a balanced approach to Sandy Hook have you seen James Corbett’s interview with the Florida college professor?
SanderO Says:
Tony Wicher,
In a word… RUBBISH… It’s possible… or conceivable that the towers were destroyed by placed devices initiating gravity driven collapses. It’s only speculation that they were taken down by CD. PURE 100% speculation. There is no evidence that is irrefutable or unambiguous about CD.
There is evidence that a cover story was issued from the get go… to drive the country into war.. never ending war where the entire world was a battlefield and played right into the hands of the national security state… sort of a NSS wet dream. There is evidence that this attack was coming and efforts were made to prevent a response to the information… and so one could argue that someone inside of the government bureaucracy was able to help the attacks take place by disabling the US response or preventative measures.
There is a problem from a legal standpoint of arresting people who have not committed a crime… but the state KNOWS??? that these people are going to commit a crime. Yes the NSS does engage in sting ops to nail suspected people about to engage in crime… and that too reinforces the notion that we need the NSS and its protection.
There is little doubt that the oil guys wanted at the ME. There is no doubt that the Pentagon was floundering about without an enemy or a mission… fiddling around with Star Wars and concerned that they would be downsized and money diverted to *social programs*. The bloated MIC was not going to see itself put out of business. And so the argument can be made that they either are behind terrorism or simply coddle it and use it to advance their agenda.
There is no doubt that US policy inspires and creates terrorism and insurgencies… much like Israeli’s does with the Palestinians. Both the USA and Israel then take a very heavy handed approach and this only generates more terrorists and terrorist sympathizers.
So the USA didn’t need to run a 9/11 operation and probably couldn’t pull it off as they demonstrated for half a century that they can win a war against a third world country despite having a military with more equipment and weaponry and then the entire rest of the world combined. No way could the DOD pull of the precision that the 9/11 conspiracists describe 9/11 as.
I’ve read all the work by AE911T and the only material which I support is their critique of the NIST report. But the NIST report was simply a cover because the *insiders* hadn’t even planned or known the outcome of the planes hitting the towers and how bldg 7 could be collateral damage because of its extremely bizarre design. All that had to be covered up… as well as the stand downs and so forth. The meme was let’s get revenge! not Let’s find out what happened and so the NIST report was only to satisfy the few who were curious about how the buildings fell. Patriots didn’t care! So NIST dragged this butts and came up with a fairy tale and provided cover for all the incompetence on our side.
The MIC and special interests have been driving the agenda and controlling the narrative for more than half a century. Gladio was established to crush the rise of the popular left in Italy by making the lest seem extreme and radical. The right and the fascists will use whatever mechanism they can to destroy the left.
9/11 was a blow back event then exploited to get oil in the ME, install friendly puppet governments over there… forward bases to control control control… exploit exploit exploit and keep the Chinese and the Russians inside their borders. Terrorism is hardly going to destroy the USA.. but bankers and their ponzi schemes will and is!
Unfortunately the *truth movement* is doing more harm to progressive ideas and movements like peace than good. It’s become a career for some and an industry to get money from suckers… That doesn’t not mean that all truthers have bad intentions. Most are well meaning but naive and agenda driven because they’ve seen the USA gov lie. But that’s true of every government from time immemorial.
Paid liars? Care to name a few paid liars? Who is paying them and what are the lies are they are paid to make?
SanderO Says:
Wicher… not only can they explain it better than you can… although they are mostly wrong.. but you can’t explain it at all. Don’t go repeating like a parrot who doesn’t understand the technical issues. It is very telling.
remo Says:
Lemnitzer, of Northwoods infamy, went on to NATO Supreme commander, Brussels 1963 – 69. You’d have to say a perfect man for the job. Gladio. NATO. Brussels on the ‘no listen’ list.
At TonyW., personally appreciate your comments on Richard Gage and AE work unmasking the creatioNIST agnotologies.
as to sandy hook.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-sandy-hook-tragedy-an-inquisitive-visit-to-newtown-connecticut/5320784
remo Says:
With regard P2OG and P2 and GLADIO now morphing into Gladio B:
http://www.investigatingtheterror.com/articles/The_Prototype.htm
“:As of 1948, the so-called Clandestine Committee of the Western Union (CCWU) united senior officers of European military secret services in order to coordinate secret anticommunist warfare. After the creation of NATO in 1949, the CCWU was secretly integrated into NATO, and as of 1951, operated under the label Clandestine Planning Committee (CPC). Next to the CPC, a second secret army command center, labeled Allied Clandestine Committee (ACC), was set up in 1957 on the orders of NATOs Supreme Allied Commander in Europe (SACEUR). This military structure provided for significant US leverage over the secret stay-behind networks in Western Europe as the SACEUR, throughout NATOs history, has traditionally been a US General who reports to the Pentagon in Washington and is based in NATOs Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe (SHAPE) in Mons, Belgium. The ACCs duties included elaborating on the directives for the network, developing its clandestine capability, and organizing bases in Britain and the United States. In wartime, it was to plan stay-behind operations in conjunction with SHAPE. According to former CIA director William Colby, it was “a major program.” – Ganser
So, the ACCs duties included developing clandestine capability, and organizing bases in Britain and the United States as a major program confirmed by colby.
Are we to understand the possibility of Atrocities being committed in the United States right now, classic Gladio type attacks – Aurora, Sandyhook etal, could be part of an expanded network B ?
flogchopsuey Says:
remo:
You ask: “Are we to understand the possibility of Atrocities being committed in the United States right now, classic Gladio type attacks – Aurora, Sandyhook etal, could be part of an expanded network B ?”
I recommend you take a look at the recent James Corbett interview with the Florida college professor of media studies if you haven’t already. Very balanced.
Here is my take. I avoid daily exposure to the mainstream media so that my senses do not become accustomed to the format. I spend time exposing myself to good examples of critical thinking, analytical methodology, and other methods of exercising my mind to try to get sharp or stay as sharp as possible. So when I do get exposed to the MSM, my crap detector just goes off the deep end and I am noticing more what I am not hearing and the whole biased mess that is being vomited on me is revealed. As a kid in Moscow in the late 50′s the only stuff on TV was Soviet propaganda. The art of propaganda and the history of the US media and the US education system prove to me that it is their policy to dominate the populations attention span with a content tailored to achieve an effect. Such an opportunity to control and tailor the content has been put to good effect. For the most part, events do not have to be created to bring this about. The events that come up can simply be covered in a way that is sufficient to achieve the effect. Choosing what is and what is not covered is half the battle. When specific acts need to happen, then the timing and nature of coverage is all the more controllable, if coverage is desired at all. I suppose an event could occur for no other reason than to be a distraction from an event for which coverage is not wanted. Real funerals of real kids happened after Sandy Hook. See James Corbett’s interview with the professor. My guess is that the media is being given a very limited access and is being threatened with even less if they complain. My guess is that this is effective in getting the public used to a very superficial approach to everything. The more used they get to this, the less scrutiny any issues ever get. Parents think this makes it easier to parent, rulers think this makes it easier to rule. A certain percentage of the population will have adverse mental health impacts from this because it is fraught with double binds and cognitive dissonance. Watch The Dog Whisperer with Cesar Milan if you want to see what this can do to a dog. Anecdotes of psychiatric medication use tells the story of what this can do to humans.
“This Film Is Not Yet Rated” is a great documentary available on Netflix streaming that depicts flagrant censorship in the US motion picture industry. Very informative in regards to the present conversation.
Xicha Says:
One thing that wasn’t talked about in this interview with Sibel, which was discussed during the original Talking Turkey interview on Dec 2, 2011 (with Corbett), is the use of construction contractors for funneling money to these operations and possibly the mosques and madrasas.
Opium trade and corrupt contractors are two funding sources for Gladio Part B.
How can we find out which US officials went to Baku and met with Zawahiri, just before 9/11?
remo Says:
Sander. Why don’t you produce what it is you DO think somewhere one time and POST IT so we can have a READ of it and make up our OWN friggin MINDS on the independence of your technical aspects.
flogchopsuey Says:
To: tonywicher, SanderO, remo, etc.
Regarding 9/11/01, as a truce, could we all (tonywicher, SanderO, remo, Xicha, me, etc.) agree that the 5 minute overview developed by James Corbett for the anniversary on 9/11/11 (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yuC_4mGTs98) is fairly representative of a reasonable consensus? I think Sibel Edmonds and James Corbett tend to see things eye to eye on most issues, and as a community of BFP supporters it might help if we could define what we DO agree on, if possible, in regards to 9/11. If SanderO or anyone else would care to take it further or critique it, all the better. Thanks, flogchopsuey.
flogchopsuey Says:
No one has responded regarding my earlier Oliver Stone comment, so let me suggest that if you haven’t seen his 2006 Documentary on Cuba called Looking for Fidel, available on instant view streaming from Netflix, may I recommend it to you? This series on Gladio has been truely inspiring to me and others so would it not be fantastic if someone like Stone would get the bug and propel Gladio into the wider public sphere? We may not all like everything Stone has done, but Looking for Fidel has some great moments, seriously!
flogchopsuey Says:
SanderO thanks for sharing your site. And also for the narrative, so well done, except. The one except is that you seem to have a “no hostages” style of describing the unfortunate state of affairs that technical discussions have reached in the “truth” movement sphere. I dismiss myself from being technically capable right up front, though I’m sure that I still make plenty of mistakes. But if I am paralyzed about pissing off the hard core veterans, and their lofty levels of experience and vision seem unapproachable, is that not an obstacle in developing any form of networking or community? I’ll grant that what tonywicher said regarding the Cass Sunstein reference etc. was insulting and ill considered, and I would like him to find a way to take that back or move beyond it. He is no moron. But the tone of things now has made it more difficult for him to wiggle forward. In the establishment of the powers that be everyone is expendable, and people are ruthlessly dispatched into obscurity without hesitation, people step all over each other. Many of the little folks like me bumping around on these forums do not aspire to greatness, but hope that a little greatness can rub off on us and we can be little wiser and a little more capable as a result. But we have egos and we have histories and we have PTSD in one form or another by definition. So we need an exit plan to deal with these flare ups that does not reduce the whole truth movement to lonely sitting ducks that a drone armed borg-like monolith can just pick off one by one. Aaron S? You haven’t left Wicher much bandwidth. I don’t agree with him insulting you, but there has to be a better way. Facts are not the only issue on the table. Ego’s are not worth enough to jeopardize the progress we need to make. Your reputation is not that fragile that it needs a fortress.
Xicha Says:
SanderO’s first comment on this blog told me that he didn’t listen to the interview.
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/02/02/must-watch-video-operation-gladio-part-i-from-neo-fascists-to-mujahedeen-aka-al-qaeda/comment-page-1/#comment-9579
I don’t know why he continually attempts to deflect legal blame from the US officials involved, like some HOP descriptor that he has fenced himself in with. But his arguments are the same as they were a month ago, or whenever it was that I asked him a hundred times to listen to Talking Turkey I. Can’t remember if he did, because his final reply was simply to say “whatever suits you Xicha” or something to that effect.
I don’t mind people having more to offer or different perspectives, but I have stopped direct responses out of frustration. Probably out of my own bias and not wanting to be guilty of calling names or personal attacks again.
***PLEASE***
Let’s try to ask some real questions about what’s going on with James and Sibel’s interview above. They are attempting to flesh out the CURRENT Gladio Operation. This affects all of us and we have a vested interest in trying to help them ask and discuss pertinent questions.
flogchopsuey Says:
Xicha,
Well I find myself moderating a bit and haven’t been put in my place yet, so:
Definition of fanatic by Winston Churchill: A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.
Now Mihop, Lihop, Hop. There is no reason we have to try settle this matter for once and for all right now. We have a lot of common ground without having to settle that. The fact that it is not settled in a way is a strength. To settle it, you have to defend it. To not settle it makes the pressure on having a proper investigation all the stronger. You do not want to put yourself in defense mode if you can stay in offense mode.
I once referred to something directly to SanderO in a previous comment thread and did not get a response. It hurt a little bit as I was hoping for some recognition but even more, some guidance. But I am not in his head and my impression of him was of someone with certain exceptional gifts. Besides, who knows that he hasn’t gone back and seen the referenced interview by now? I have worked around gifted people, even lived around them. They are out there on the bell curve in more than one way. We need people like that around even if you can’t count on them responding the way we might hope. And I think you are reading him wrong about deflecting blame. His language is very very precise and his statements are extremely targeted and fact directed. Those types distrust blanket statements and will not be cornered into a broad sweep situation where it violates one of their complex models. Those types are constantly misjudged and that includes Wicher. Earlier I was looking into a Churchill quote about the empires of the mind. Boy was he onto something. There is a weird kind of evolution here that is facing all humanity in the face. It is a slog in the mud. It can’t be skipped. It will not be put off.
SanderO Says:
Xicha..
Are suggesting that Gladio is an ongoing program? Or are you suggesting a program similar to Gladio being run today?
Correct me if I am wrong… Gladio was a operation to destroy the left in Italy which was represented by a legitimate and still legal communist party in Italy… of which my Deceased brother in law was very active. The fascists of course the adversary of the left signed on and were strongly supportive of the crack down and discrediting of the left. The staged bombings in Bologna and assassinations were intended to and successively did intimidate and frighten the average Italian.
This can be likened to the BS terrorists ops such as the shoe and underwear bombers… the color alerts and so forth which have had the chilling effect of allowing our constitutional rights to be taken away without hardly a pip.
With a ineffective democracy… a fig leaf… a fraud… the powerful who hare entrenched already are able to with no resistance pursue their hegemonic vision of world domination and control. And that’s what we have now… a neutered democracy, a controlled media, and a completely unchecked national security state with terrorism used as the reason, excuse, pretext. The 3r Reich did it, the Israeli’s do it and the USA does it. Terrorism works for the consolidation of state and corporate power with no democratic checks and balances.
Corporations have one interest – profits its owners and main share holders… nothing else matters. Corporations are not democratic institutions and have insinuated themselves into the US government appropriations process big time.
So what is the current Gladio and what is the objective?
SanderO Says:
Xicha..
Are suggesting that Gladio is an ongoing program? Or are you suggesting a program similar to Gladio being run today?
Correct me if I am wrong… Gladio was a operation to destroy the left in Italy which was represented by a legitimate and still legal communist party in Italy… of which my Deceased brother in law was very active. The fascists of course the adversary of the left signed on and were strongly supportive of the crack down and discrediting of the left. The staged bombings in Bologna and assassinations were intended to and successively did intimidate and frighten the average Italian.
This can be likened to the BS terrorists ops such as the shoe and underwear bombers… the color alerts and so forth which have had the chilling effect of allowing our constitutional rights to be taken away without hardly a pip.
With a ineffective democracy… a fig leaf… a fraud… the powerful who hare entrenched already are able to with no resistance pursue their hegemonic vision of world domination and control. And that’s what we have now… a neutered democracy, a controlled media, and a completely unchecked national security state with terrorism used as the reason, excuse, pretext. The 3rd Reich did it, the Israeli’s do it and the USA does it. Terrorism works for the consolidation of state and corporate power with no democratic checks and balances.
Corporations have one interest – profits its owners and main share holders… nothing else matters. Corporations are not democratic institutions and have insinuated themselves into the US government appropriations process big time.
So what is the current Gladio and what is the objective?
Xicha Says:
See what I mean?
http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-595-sibel-edmonds-on-nato-terrorism-911-and-drug-running/
This is the entire 1 hour interview with Sibel and Corbett. Please listen to it. Thank you.
flogchopsuey Says:
Xicha,
Regarding “see what I mean”.
Clue #1: In a recent post SanderO entered his comment twice. Once at 1:08, once at 1:33. Either he is multi tasking, has technical issues with his internet connection, or has other issues taking up his attention at this time, etc.
Clue #2: While I was typing one comment, that went on at 12:53, SanderO was typing his 1:08 post. So our posts past by each other and he may not have even seen mine. He may not consider the quality of this commenting forum of sufficient caliber to maintain a high level grasp of the comment flow and timing. The stuff with Wicher could be reminding him of past frustrations with the whole truther thing that are more mind blowing than you or I could imagine. He may have seen stuff that the Wicher exchange hot buttoned. We will probably never know. We all need to have real lives going on in the background too. Have you ever seen a comment by James Corbett on here? Yet you know he has a substantial commitment to BFP. So, take it all with a grain of salt, I think.
These little things with internet protocols can add to the difficulty of confusion, and can make it harder to read each other. Maybe SanderO will get a chance to get the interview if he hasn’t already. I tend to think at this point he hasn’t listened to it. My opinion of his past and potential future value to this forum has not been effected by this. If he has something to add to or take away from Gladio, it will come out, if not this week maybe some other time.
Xicha Says:
Hi flogchopsuey,
Your comments have been very thoughtful and I appreciate them.
What I mean, by “see what I mean?” is that SO starts commenting on this thread with an authoritative attitude – telling us all what Gladio was – telling us all what everything is – his usual, know-it-all attitude in my opinion.
But why comment on a thread and make such statements, if you haven’t listened to the interview? The interview will answer the questions he asked of me.
We need to get back to the subject at hand. It’s the most important interview I have ever heard and goes DIRECTLY against what SO has been so authoritatively declaring. That’s what I mean.
It’s not just once, it’s the usual. Gifted or not, I don’t find it helpful. I have found SO’s comments divisive, off topic, and wrong the majority of the time. When I spent time trying to corner him with logic, it was not worth it.
This will be my last comment on this diversion into CD and HOP. I am interested in the topic at the top of the page.
Xicha Says:
Sorry, one more: How do you get SO deep into CD that you become a member of the board of AE911T, and then suddenly start treating “truthers” with such disdain?
That bugs me.
And, I searched a little and found some SO comments supporting a group called CIT which promotes a fly-over theory at the pentagon and has been caught lying and misusing quotes from eye witness (editing – cutting them off – misrepresenting).
That bugs me, but might be another case of flip flopping. I don’t know.
Those, along with the divisive, diversionary, know-it-all comments, make me suspicious.
Dammit, I didn’t want to do that.
flogchopsuey Says:
Yep. Back to Gladio. My Dad was WWII Navy then State Department. If I knew how to contact you back channel I would send you a link. My Dad is in the JFK assassination archives with correspondence he wrote re:Oswald whom he had met in Moscow. That is one reason I like one other guy who posts here because of these weird family connections that affect the kids who grow up in that environment. Anyway, my Dad would take family along on weird outings. Gladio reminded me of some spooky stuff we got to see second hand as kids in Genoa around 1967. You know that any Americans working in the US Embassy in the late 50s had to be intelligent assets. One more thing. Chief Justice Warren stayed with my family in Zagreb around the same time for a few days. What are the odds he was just doing the tourist thing or just wanted to get a grand tour of our diplomatic posts? Don’t ask me to say any more on that. Oh, but I will say this. I was in Istanbul in the fall of 1995 and just happened to run into some real nice friendly State Department folks while shopping in the famous gold bazaar that is near the University and outside markets. Those kinds of things still make the hair on my neck stand up for the rest of the day. And this is real small time stuff. You have got to have brass balls to take that environment, especially if you rock the boat. Same with high exposure in the alternative media I would imagine.
SanderO Says:
Xicha,
I am constantly learning and evolving my thinking… apparently not common amongst the truther community which have very rigid views of the event. I joined AE911T to add some professional expertise to their operations… which had less than a handful of architects or engineers… all non professional volunteers.
Gage invited me to their board and I was trying to get him – the self declared CEO to get some of the many professionals to do a Building Performance Study. He and other board members were totally against the idea. Why? Perhaps it might reveal that CD was not the cause of the destruction? Don’t know. But I was railroaded out of the group for asking questions and asking people to think. Since thinking independently was out of the question for AE911T was OK being expelled… actually relieved. I was free to do my own research, thinking and not have to pass their litmus tests or sign on to their talking points.
I was never so deep into CD… EVER. I simply found the official explanation not credible. I still do. And now having studied the matter can confirm that AE911T’s explanation of explosive CD is pure unadulterated rubbish as well. There is not a scintilla of evidence to support it and at best some slight bit of uncertainty as to what initiated the collapse. The three towers collapsed unaided by explosives. FULL STOP END OF STORY.
My independence led to my thinking about the events changing. I don’t know much about the Pentagon… but considered the CIT research worthy of consideration and I support their work. I can’t verify their work or judge its accuracy. I can do that for fields I have expertise or direct personal experience with.
I do not lie.
I am human.. I make mistakes.
Accusing me of lying is not appreciated.
I hold strong opinions and I state them. I have a right to express my opinions…. as do you. And you do.
Xicha Says:
Fair enough SanderO. I apologize for any personal insult.
SanderO Says:
OK… I am listening to the Gladio interview of Sibel. She relays some interesting information.
Turkey was in a very strategic location during the cold war period. The US and NATO had a massive base at Incilik.. Probably had nukes there targeting USSR. The US military had a Dr Strangelove perverse paranoia about Soviet expansion. When Cuba went over to the cummunist sphere of influence the CIA wnet ballistic. Communists 90 miles from our shores. All the capitalist enterprises were turned over the the people. This humiliation for the right wing fascists was too much. They tried all ways to assassinate Castro. JFK was pissed off at the CIA and its free lance operations (on behalf of the transnationals… fearing that a nuclear exchange could take place as these nukes thousands of them were targeted to US and USSR cities on hair trigger. There WERE lost nukes. Bay of Pigs was a bridge too far. These cowboys got us into Vietnam with the bogus domino theory and were killing our soldiers … 55,000 of them and millions of Vietnamese… DOD was out of control… JFK was taken out for wanting to bring peace and downside the MIC and get rid of the CIA… all excellent ideas.
His assassination was a coup… the CIA stayed in power… the POTUS simply was a figurehead read into the plan with no serious independence.
Gladio originated as an anti communist program because there was a fear of democratically elected leftist governments in Europe.
When the USSR collapsed from the burden of military spending from the arms race and massive inefficiencies in their economy… the west had to make several choices… and formulate a new policy.
The transnationals wanted at the stans and the former energy rich former soviet states where Islam was suppressed by the atheist communist regime of the USSR. The entire region was bubbling over with power struggles and the oligarchs emerged as the new power centers and capitalists… our guys to be befriend and partner with in exploitation! Our model… read John Perkins.
Turkey remained our stepping stone to the Turkish speaking region. It too was seeing a surge of interest in Islam after the secular push of Ataturk to move Turkey to the West.
Why does any of this matter to John Q Public in the USA? Frankly it doesn’t. Who does this all matter to? The fascists who make money from way and illegal weapons sales, gun running, drugs… the local idiots/gangsters who become local point men and partners for these illegal operations.
Oil (energy), weapons and drugs are businesses… the products are sold.. people make money from them. Security is a a paranoid notion stood up to make people think that we in the US have to fear the stans or whatever rag tag group of disgruntled angry people who want to kick back at the oppression and exploitation.
This all can’t be done democratically. You can’t steal and exploit people with their consent. War and National Security are criminal extortion / exploitation operations.
Nothing new here.. it goes on in every nation because there is a buck to be made and these SOBS don’t want the Chinese (now.. before.. the USSR) to control the play in these countries… These local thugs or babas are pleased as punch to get their asses bribed and protected by the MIC and the CIA.. the legal international mafia.. Noriega… Marcos… Pinochet…Mobuto Seseseko, Mubarak, Shah Pahlavi.. Hussein… all cut from the same cloth… little greedy SOBs who are pleased as punch the be US CIA puppets and cash out big time.
The NSS and MIC are the pit bulls for the transnationals.. legal and illegal. This is no longer about suppression of the left… or its ability to gain power through democratic means… That’s history.
We’re in end stage capitalism.. the last throes… last gasps as the ponzi scheme is crashing and the last exploits are being fought over and the fanatical religious zealots and fundamentalists are wanting to return the world to the dark ages.
Obviously all these machinations are not in the public consciousness… well hidden by design and BS narratives. Someone has to reveal it all…
Someone is. Thank you.
Xicha Says:
@SanderO:
You are omitting any feedback about the main thrust of this interview – that al qaeda and the like were being controlled by NATO and the US via GLADIO! And there were US officials meeting with Zawahiri in Baku just before 9/11. This is testimonial evidence that 9/11 was a scheme by and for the powerful in the US/NATO. More evidence of the building of the Islamic Extremist terrorist infrastructure by the US through Gulen.
The whole move from Gladio Part A to Gladio Part B. Did you understand what Sibel explained about this?
As Sibel said at the end of the interview, this is the Master Key for understanding 9/11. And it’s not over – this relationship is still in place, as far as what I’ve heard so far. So, it’s important that this be further exposed, in order to stop further “events” and to trigger that evasive revolution so many are wanting.
This is one of the main points that directly contradicts what you have been saying about blowback and let-it-happen, etc. I would like to hear your feedback about this main point. Thanks in advance.
SanderO Says:
OK I listened to the entire interview. I learned nothing new in the big picture… lots of details
There is no Gladio part B per se… these CIA operations are the black ops, criminality which have been going on since the early 50s… it’s the way the MIC and the transnationals control regions which are economically exploited. The CIA controls most media in this country…
The key to 911 is that some Islamists who were on the CIA payroll, trained and used against Nagibullah in Afghanistan, called the Mujahadeem decided to bite the hand that fed them… or perhaps these radicals really wanted outsiders out of Islamic countries…. who knows. Lots of double and triple agents and people being paid enormous sums of money to do nasty things.
911 was not an inside job false flag CD but a rogue operation that the CIA and the MIC lost control over the outcome but not the narrative. The wars and the enemy to be targeted was all planned. The plan was that once a terrorist attack took place the gloves could come off and all the countries in the ME could be taken over one at a time… even using the angry street to provide a fig leaf for the latest puppets to be installed.
It’s terribly naive to think that there are no terrorists who despise what the US is doing around the world and especially in the Caucuses and the ME and the Balkans.. all Islamic regions. The US has to find a way to work with them or they will ally with the Chinese and the Russians and the MIC and the transnationals will lose out.
Why would the CIA have to blow up the WTC when it was only a matter of time before some Islamist plot would be carried out. And in the case of 9/11 intel knew it was in the making and the MIC let it happen so that they had the pretext to being the New American Century of full spectrum dominance. Democracies don’t start wars… they defend democracies… so an attack was what was needed and with all the provocation around the ME and the Caucuses and Balkans and Indonesia and so forth it inevitable.
It was treasonous to let the attacks go forward when they could have been prevented or to literally fabricate all the parts of the the bogus cover story… and of course the bogus investigations cover up hiding the foreknowledge, hiding the incompetence, the stand downs, the war games distraction… the fact that they didn’t expect the towers to drop on 3,000 people. In the end the details didn’t matter… the story was we were attacked and they got their excuse for war. And then they lied their way into Iraq… and now use every trick in the book to engage US, NATO, special forces, outsource mercenaries in all the nations of the region and now Africa…. the even greater economic prize.
The solution to all this is to shut the CIA down, and severely downsize the US military and close all the 130+ forward bases around the world. The resources we need…. we’ll have to buy with all the trillions we save on not spending it on defense and the NSS. But they guys who are making out with this corrupt criminal system are not going to be put out to pasture. They stir up as much trouble as need to be to get the people to beg for more security and give up their constitutional rights.
America is already a neo feudal society… a democracy in name only… really a fascist state. Our freedom is an illusion.
tonywicher Says:
SandarO is deliberately confusing and obfuscating the issue. That’s what he does for a living, I think. Yes, we are approaching the same phenomenon of this alliance between NATO imperialism and Islamic terrorism from different directions. “Al Qaeda” was originally founded by Zbigiew Brzezinski and Robert Gates to provoke the Soviets to invade Afghanistan and “give them their Vietnam. Osama bin Laden was a career CIA agent. Right now we see “Al Qaeda” proliferating all over the place. These different militias have different names but they are all basically funded and armed by imperial forces and their proxy governments in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, Kuwait and of course Israel. These places were all British colonies. The degenerate Al Sauds were put on the throne by the British. Israel was created by the British Balfour Declaration of 1917. King Hussein of Jordan is so British I hear he can’t even speak Arabic very well. None of these governments could survive without Anglo-American imperial support. These mercenary militias are being used to overthrow non-compliant regimes like Libya and Syria, and they are threatening both Russia and China in Asia. While Obama was busy “eradicating” Al Qaeda by bumping off bin Laden and feeding his alleged body to the sharks, “Al Qaeda” was somehow proliferating everywhere.
flogchopsuey Says:
Thanks tonywicher too, excellent comments in my opinion. We were writing and hitting the send button at just about the same time.
I noticed that I played down the “actual” terrorist threat to the US from those unhappy with imperialistic outcomes. Perhaps this difference in emphasis is a key for me to understand SanderO better.
I am mostly pleased with the improved tone of this most recent set of posts but I still see that the efforts to respect each other are hindered by old mistrusts. I know how deeply these mistrusts seem to go, and it seems at a cellular level, good people just can have opposing chemistry but not have bad motives. Where understanding each other leaves off, the imagination takes over. Real trolls would not give a real shit. You guys are all way too smart to be doing what you are just because you want to infiltrate Sibel Edmonds comments section. I mean, with that kind of brain power I am seeing here, you guys have to be pretty sincerely impressed with her and her affiliated “authors” to be hanging here. How many people do you think are reading this? Not that I am not honored, I am. Just sayin.
flogchopsuey Says:
Thanks SanderO. You seem to acknowledge the possibility of remote control on the flight vehicles. I remind you, my bone in this is curiosity, not convincing anyone. But just if, if there were intentional acts regarding the flight vehicles, then that opens up quite a few possibilities. What could have been delivered to the sites in terms of incendiary material or post impact delayed effect materials (explosive or otherwise) would possibly have been on the table for any planners if they had enough access to the flight vehicles. There would not be an easy way for me to imagine how to model this in terms of collapse dynamics. If there was a preference for building collapse, smart minds would have had time to consider alternatives. I am sure you have been through this a million times. Maybe there is an existing model that is both convincing and shows that the claimed flight vehicles were reasonably sufficient at achieving the effect they are claimed by government sources to have achieved. If that’s the way you interpret it, that’s cool with me. If its still too messed up a picture to say even that, that’s cool too. Thanks again, and if you would care to comment on these points it would be appreciated.
tonywicher Says:
SandarO,
Do not threaten me. I cannot be intimidated. State your real name and whether or not you are a member of the AIA. Post a link to your resume. If you will do so honestly and I can verify what you say, I will refrain from calling you a charlatan, although charlatans can get AIA memberships with CIA help, I am sure. But until you do so, I consider you a nameless troll whom I am free to characterize as I please.
flogchopsuey Says:
SanderO:
Your statement on 2/6/13 on BFP (above in comments):
“I was never so deep into CD… EVER. I simply found the official explanation not credible. I still do. And now having studied the matter can confirm that AE911T’s explanation of explosive CD is pure unadulterated rubbish as well. There is not a scintilla of evidence to support it and at best some slight bit of uncertainty as to what initiated the collapse. The three towers collapsed unaided by explosives. FULL STOP END OF STORY.”
You had already answered my questions clearly enough. I am satisfied, and accept this as a sincere statement. Short of a proper investigation, I expect that I will remain uncertain regarding CD at the WTC. How the buildings fell is not central to Sibel Edmonds thesis nor mine. I feel like we are all basically on the same page. Again, thanks for the exchange.
tonywicher Says:
Really? What’s your name and architect’s license number? Where’s your resume? It shouldn’t be anything to be ashamed of. I just want to check you out a little bit. If you’re the real thing, I might hire you to build a shopping center or something.
I do not consider you sincere because of the logical and scientific worthlessness of your technical arguments. I consider you a deliberate obscurantist whose real purpose is to cause confusion and uncertainty in the face of proven scientific facts. You are more than just misinformed, you are deliberately misleading people, and discrediting the legitimate work of real qualified scientists and experts.
remo Says:
Whatever seriousness I held for your opinion Sander0, has been well dispelled by that ridiculous synopsis above.
To end your BLOW, with “……maybe placed devices…a few of them…very few”
- relegates all previous contention to scrap.
flogchopsuey Says:
Remo,
This is the point in the conversation where the technical details need to be put on the back burner. Unless you happen to be more technically qualified than SanderO, in which case I doubt you would use the language you did. What is on the front burner here is whether you are capable of evolving and seeing that no matter how the issue of CD/collapse turns out the issue of sincere people working for good being blown apart by differing opinions and bad behavior is the only important issue. We are lucky to have an architect on board here who is willing to put himself on the line for us. The whole truth movement would be so lucky to have people willing to take the risk. Our footing would be better and we could get out of the rut of being on the defense of our own “conspiracies” and get back on the offensive. We have Sibel Edmonds and James Corbett setting an example of big picture restraint when it comes to the technicalities of building collapse/demolition. So whose synopsis is the more questionable?
SanderO Says:
Remo,
I don’t think that they would conspire to murder 3,000 mostly American innocent people. Yes they do kill collateral damage in wars… but unfortunately they think of these dead as less than human. Warriors kill with a numbness that is stunning.
These are opportunists not murderers. They are above the facilitator level or the mechanic level of operations. They are the SPONSORS.. the board of directors… others do their bidding. The plan was likely to find an excuse to begin some serious WARS… OK boss… we’ll take care of it… They did… but killed too many people in the process… wasn’t supposed to happen… it was covered up. You don’t think this makes sense? Good for you. It does to me.
Have a nice day.
tonywicher Says:
Of course, the Architects and Engineers have had the blueprints for the WTC buildings for years, and they are publicly displayed on their web site for anyone to see, along with their real names and qualifications. I long ago decided from the things he says that SanderO is not sincere and his arguments do not deserve a response because he does not argue in good faith.
Xicha Says:
“This is not the place for technical discussions…” …followed by paragraphs upon paragraphs upon pages of technical discussion. Again, this has happened every time the subject comes up here. (All this damage is assumed to be down the length of the building? Suddenly 24 columns? What happened to the top section, that was the great foot of god that smashed the building? It disappears before it has time to smash the building, with no measurable delay as it impacts the bottom section. Whatever, this is NOT what this post is about!!!)
The real thing lost here about SanderO (cause this is all about him now) is his complete dismissal and contradiction of just about everything Sibel said in the interview, regarding Gladio Part B. Then goes on and on like the know-it-all he is about black ops and US foreign policy because he’s such an authority. Well, at least we got him to listen to the damn interview half way through his comment tsunami.
Man, the contradictions. And no, flogchopsuey, I do not have to be glad that SO is here with his know-it-all behavior or come to a consensus with him. I don’t trust him and I find contradictions in much of what he says.
Also, please take note, tonywicher, that this is what often happens when one brings up CD in a place where you should know by now that it will only become a distraction. I said the same when Sibel had her book review and you wanted to talk about it then.
SanderO Says:
Xicha,
You are correct… I did not bring this up… Wicher did and I bristle when I hear dabblers who are parrots and who slander me… And this gets me going. I apologize for raising this technical stuff.
Xicha… know it all? What sort of comment is that? I have been actively studying this for over 5 years and am an architect for 40… Excuse me… for presenting my professional opinion based on personal study of the subject.
remo Says:
Why would anybody advocating so vehemently NON-cd/sequential building failure ALLOW the HEDGE of ‘maybe’…’devices’ >? That makes no SENSE. Maybe? devices? a FEW of them….
What the fck does that MEAN? that you ALLOW it possible the degree of destruction MAYBE indicates was ‘aided by ‘devices’…..as a kind of throw away for us PARROTS to think you generous by allowing the chance?
You allow for one, son, you allow for ALL. For ALL the Tonnes of the nanoengineered stuff set off that day and continuing to BOIL steel in the Pile for WEEKS sending that ppm toxic metallic AEROSOL smoke into the air.
You deliver a quandry. The ‘qualifications’ regarded as deciding the conversation notwithstanding, your arguments lack coherence:OR:Somewhere it don’t add up. This ‘opportunist not murderer’ thing. What do you mean? That Bush and Cheney and the whole goddamned neoconazionist machine of deep state you are living in is so fine as to distinguish? You don’t think the argument of that having been achieved cue bono since 911 not up to qualifying it as REASON enough? That a deception on this scale not up to the sacrifice of those souls murdered that day?
Thats just exceptionalist nonsense.
Sibel Edmonds Says:
@Xicha: Right. You see the reason why so many WBs/insiders/real reporters got disgusted and gave up. We are looking at completely irrelevant points, paired up with hypothesis, and regardless of validity in an inappropriate setting/context.
This post/interview/series are about a macro picture based on macro facts. This time, I am going to delete and clean up, and not let others get disgusted.
Sibel Edmonds Says:
One last time: Until we have a functioning forum (technically functioning) please limit your comments to the specific topics/posts. When/if we have a post on architects/WTC/engineers then bring in your ‘expertise’ and points, and discuss it fir as long as you wish (and can go on typing. When we have a post on Gladio/Heroin/Mujahedeen/Turkey, feel free to share your comments/ideas on all related aspects.
Also, Sander O: Gladio did NOT stop operating. They have several branches alive, fully functioning and with specific target regions. That was/is the main reason for SSP.
Sibel Edmonds Says:
Okay, I think I deleted comments that truly got out of our topic area. I hate doing this- please, please don’t make me do this again- just stay with the topic. For example: You can disagree with the thesis of this video interview, what I said/my experience … all that is fine. As long as they are specifically on this topic.
Again, for example, Sander O believes that NATO’s Gladio ceased to exist after the fall of Soviet. I can tell you that is not the case, and do so with 100% certainty and first-hand knowledge. I have no problem with people voicing their skepticism, disagreement, or their own belief/knowledge … As long as they stay on the specific topic posted/being discussed.
OK? So please proceed.
flogchopsuey Says:
Xicha, regarding your comment at 8:46 on 2/6:
If you want to know what kind of consensus I was requesting, it is still in print above: I said “as a truce, could we all (tonywicher, SanderO, remo, Xicha, me, etc.) agree that the 5 minute overview developed by James Corbett for the anniversary is fairly representative of a reasonable consensus?”.
SanderO can stand up for himself, but guilty as charged, and under similar circumstances, I would support him again (see the context, in print, above). The attack on his character was not warranted. I would have supported you as well under the same circumstances. What don’t kill you, makes you stronger.
remo Says:
Nice to know you are there Sibel. Did you report Gulen schools opening in continental USA? Is that right? Is he operating there too?
Xicha Says:
@remo:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2102-18560_162-57433131.html
Harmony Schools
“Lesley Stahl: We’ve seen that some of these visas for Turkish teachers to come here are for English – for them to teach English. How does that make any sense?
David Dunn: I’m not aware of that. I don’t– I can’t, I can’t comment on that. I don’t know. I have not looked intimately into the visas they bring in.”
Xicha Says:
Oh, and this site:
http://gulencharterschoolsusa.blogspot.com/2011/04/karen-hughes-talking-about-harmony_10.html
mentions BoinlingFrogsPost article:
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/04/05/turkish-imam-fethullah-gulen-nabs-george-bush-pr-queen/
remo Says:
ok. I get it. next time google : Gulen Charter Schools in the United States
http://turkishinvitations.weebly.com/list-of-us-schools.html
Total number of schools currently in operation: 135
SanderO Says:
Sibel,
Perhaps I am a bit confused… as I often am as to exactly what Gladio was or if it was established with a formal mission (statement).
I have always… as long as I was aware of Gladio… attributed this name to a series of operations undertaken by intel in Italy for the most part to destroy the rising power of the left which were supported by the communists (I presume) in the USSR our adversaries of the Cold War. My conception was that Gladio was a specific sort mission for a specific perceived threat.
Intel has been engaged in all manner of *black ops* around the world and I never thought of those as part of Gladio. It’s just what intel does… with or without congressional sanction.
As such my conception was that after the Italian communist party’s rise was blunted and neutered… that program ended. But Intel did not stop their black ops and moved to a different theater with the fall of the soviet Union in 1989.
From wiki:
Operation Gladio (Italian: Operazione Gladio) is the codename for a clandestine NATO “stay-behind” operation in Europe during the Cold War. Its purpose was to continue anti-communist actions in the event of a Soviet invasion and conquest. Although Gladio specifically refers to the Italian branch of the NATO stay-behind organizations, “Operation Gladio” is used as an informal name for all stay-behind organizations, sometimes called “Super NATO”. The name Gladio is the Italian form of gladius, a type of Roman shortsword.[1]
Operating in many NATO and even some neutral countries,[2] Gladio was part of a series of national operations first coordinated by the Clandestine Committee of the Western Union (CCWU), founded in 1948. After the creation of NATO in 1949, the CCWU was integrated into the Clandestine Planning Committee (CPC), founded in 1951 and overseen by SHAPE (Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers, Europe), transferred to Belgium after France’s official withdrawal from NATO’s Military Committee in 1966 – which was not followed by the dissolution of the French stay-behind paramilitary movements.
The role of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in sponsoring Gladio and the extent of its activities during the Cold War era, and its relationship to right-wing terrorist attacks perpetrated in Italy during the “Years of Lead” (late 1960s to early 1980s) and other similar clandestine operations is the subject of ongoing debate and investigation but never proved. Switzerland and Belgium have had parliamentary inquiries into the matter.[3]”
You can call the operations in the Caucuses Gladio B if you want… but this is sort of a misnomer… And who cares? Intel is engaging in the former Soviet republics with the same bag of tricks and probably some new ones.
Intel, NATO and so forth do what they do and haven’t given it up. Clearly the former Soviet republics are where the prizes are and the turf is where they use their arsenal of nasty tricks.
flogchopsuey Says:
Sibel Edmonds,
My opinion and speculations on Gladio in present time:
Post Soviet world is different enough that we could rename it. Gladio started off as an operation when the US functioned more as a republic. The US is now a form of dictatorship. It is one thing to have an out of control secret police in the context of a dictatorship. It is quite another to have a secret police whose attention in now concentrated by masters who are copacetic with all that a police state represents.
In today’s world, the Babas and Bubas can be defined as those with no national loyalties, as those who do not answer to any laws, who see populations everywhere as plantation/profit centers. Managers and their serfs are totally expendable. Restraint is only used because it is convenient. Even slaves can rebel, and so why unnecessarily provoke them when you already have them on the defense? Its bad for business.
In a corporation, the shareholder owns the company in name only. The corporate team has the lease, they live in the house. The landlord has to make an appointment to visit, and has little say on who comes and goes, or what is in the fridge. Now if a shareholder owns enough shares to have a say, she is already a Bubba or a Baba.
So, in this context, the media, the transportation infrastructure, banking, the currencies, the mines, medicine, manufacturing, education, energy, think tanks, consumer goods and food, entertainment, prime real estate (yes, Silverman, et all) telecommunication, the drug trade, the slave trade, prostitution, etc etc are controlled by Bubbas and Babas. The money and resources they control makes all periods of history before pale in comparison.
We may have had rich churches, rich kings, rich nation states in the past.. You could tell who was on top by the height of the castle or the minaret, then later by the monuments of the nation state. Now you tell by the height of the corporate sky scraper. Politicians everywhere come crawling into these sky scrapers and scramble in the middle of the night to answer the cell phone when the bubbas and the babbas and their henchmen lobbyists call. And above these skyscrapers, we have private jets of all sizes, mobile fortresses that can fly even when the population can’t.
So Gladio today is whatever the Bubbas and the Babas say it is, as terrorists are whoever the Bubbas and the Babas say they are.
Xicha Says:
“And who cares?”
Right. Wow. I just read two pages of wikipedia and socio-nomenclature-studies theory.
WTF, guys?
Can you think of anything useful to say?
Some mutha-f****s are going to do some more dirty deeds and we need to stop them.
We have Sibel, who JUST GAVE US THE MASTER KEY! And she knows what it’s called and has told you so twice.
And, you want to rename it, to save yourself from being wrong.
What a waste.
SanderO Says:
Xicha…
I don’t want to rename Gladio and I don’t care what name you call Gladio B… As Flog points out this is more of the same with whatever name you want to give it. I don’t care about the name and names don’t matter… actions do and I care about that.
Now… what is the key to lock this up, shut this down and rid the world of the overlords of completely ignore ethnics, morals, laws and anything else to grow their personal empires. We see the alliances of the power elite with the national security state. This is ongoing.
I don’t care if I am wrong. I am wrong all the time.
So tell me Xicha… honestly… what is the importance of the name?
Xicha Says:
The importance of the name is intrinsic to the new, blockbuster information we are receiving. Namely:
Sibel gave us some testimony about what she witnessed first hand. In that testimony, she called it Gladio Part B. She then reiterated for you that this operation (called Gladio Part B) was still active and ongoing. I see no reason to discuss changing the name, except to distract from the issue at hand (which is a pattern for some here, in my opinion). This name could very well be the way the participants in the operations refer to it. I don’t know. But, I sure as hell trust Sibel, as she is the one exposing this for us. And no one else is.
So, we are getting evidence, in the form of Sibel’s testimony, that US/NATO were the ones, through Gladio B, that planned 9/11 and executed it through the use of religious extremists, guns for hire. They also used high level officials in the intelligence community/executive branch, to conceal the participants before 9/11 and to cover it up afterward.
Here is some specific information that I was keying in on:
US officials met with Zawahiri et al in Baku, multiple times, from 1997 – 2001. She said that Zawahiri was the head honcho, not OBL.
I would like to find out WHO those US officials are. Then I want to see if we can CONFIRM that they did, indeed, meet with Zawahiri in Baku shortly before 9/11. Then I want to attempt to apply public PRESSURE towards those individuals, pertaining to their relationship with Zawahiri shortly before 9/11.
I think this is only one small idea, and it probably won’t change the world. But I think it’s important to collect such strategies and start applying them ASAP. In combination with further whistle blowing (like the flight 93 shoot down contacts), you never know just what might happen.
In the big picture, this continued, active Gladio B, and it’s role in providing the infrastructure and logistics for much of the recent major terrorist events, including 9/11, is the key. We need to pull back the curtain and expose the true masterminds behind 9/11 especially, since this symbolic event has so much significance.
Continued efforts to expose them might also hinder the continued activities of Gladio B.
Can you find some interesting information in what Sibel is telling us and then try to think of more questions for her and/or ways that we can use this new information?
Let’s roll, right? Or rollover, and talk talk talk about how much we know and what name we might choose instead? Looks like purposeful distraction to cause inaction to me. Because there has been a pattern with certain individuals here, in my opinion, to consistently create meaningless discussions, distractions, diversions – you get the picture.
SanderO Says:
I don’t for a minute doubt that the CIA or PartB Boys were working with the Islamists. They were who they would use to install their favs in the former Soviet republics and in the ME. B boys have to work with insurgencies… they believe to determine the outcome they want… and B boy support is how these suckers stay loyal… until like Noreiga they get uppity.
I don’t know who was behind 9/11 and I don’t think…. just a guess… it was OBL. He was more a father figure and there seemed to have been a bunch of free lance operations going on which had a similar goal… break the West’s stranglehold on the ME and Islamic world. This sort of thing was the perfect long term enemy for the MIC who needed one because the USSR was no more and the stars wars thing was deemed dumber than a fence post and a colossal waste of money and hard to justify. Drones they can… because they use them on the WWbattle field to pick off terrorists w/ collaterials.
I believe that these redicals were into bombs and into using hijacked planes as missles and had hatched up the Bojinka plot:
” Project Bojinka, also known as Opplan Bojinka, was a massive, complex plot hatched by Ramzi Yousef following the truck bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993. The term Bojinka is Serbian for “loud bang.”
Based in Manila, Yousef and his associates began work on a series of bombs and timing devices for use aboard airplanes and in public places.
According to Abdul Hakim Murad, who capture foiled the plot, Yousef chose Manila as his base of operations because of the low standard of living there.
Yousef’s primary target was up a dozen transpacific airliners. Plotters would sneak bomb parts and liquid explosives onto planes and assemble the bombs while on board. They would get off at an intermediate stop and leave the bombs to explode via timers while en route to their final destination in the United States. This appears to be the most mature part of Bojinka: Specific flights were targeted, and Yousef himself performed a “test run” on a Philippines Airlines flight to Tokyo that left one man dead. This aspect of the plot is similar to the transatlantic airliners plot disrupted by British authorities in 2006.”
CIA was probably expecting this sort of thing but targeted at the WTC and so they were going to be ready… and make sure it gave us the right bang to kick of the New American Century by letting a few planes get through. They did.
Post 9/11 the New American Century full spectrum dominance came off the shelf… and the gloves came off and the wars began and we officially became a fascist power. The world was at first sympathetic to the nation for being attacked… but that faded fast as the Generals took over and acted out their war wet dreams coercing the *willing* and demanding half the nations of the world take our rendered prisoners for torture to get them to confess to the script these sadists had written for them.
remo Says:
You are suggesting full spectrum dominance off the shelf AFTER 911 as response to otherwise unheralded attack. “In Response to”. Allowing for righteous reaction. but facts indicate 911 planned and executed by the 911conspirators to inflame and UTILIZE that righteous reactionary energy as the PIVOT for letting loose a pre-planned full spectrum program [PNAC].
This is central to our discourse. 911 AS false flag.
Yousef is/was a nasty man for sure, but was he outsourced with Bojinka?
93 WTC bombing is widely understood as P2OG aided by FBI. So he was aided there. Why not Bojinka.
Consider.
quote “According to a classified document prepared for Rumsfeld by his Defense Science Board, the new organization–the “Proactive, Preemptive Operations Group (P2OG)”–would actually carry out secret missions designed to provoke terrorist groups into committing violent acts. The P2OG, a 100-member, so-called “counter-terrorist” organization with a $100-million-a-year budget, would ostensibly target “terrorist leaders,” but according to P2OG documents procured by Arkin, would in fact carry out missions designed to “stimulate reactions” among “terrorist groups”–which, according to the Defense Secretary’s logic, would subsequently expose them to “counter-attack” by the good guys. In other words, the plan is to execute secret military operations (assassinations, sabotage, “deception”) which would intentionally result in terrorist attacks on innocent people, including Americans–essentially, to “combat terrorism” by causing it.-” Morales, globalresearch
Further to the morphing of deep state/corporate shareholding truism.
Consider: http://www.voltairenet.org/article177357.html
“On January 22 a telling leak cropped up in the Internet. British defense contractor’s BRITAM server was hacked and megabytes of classified internal files of the firm were released to the public. Now the case is acquiring a Britamgate scale due to the publication on Prison Planet. What is the story behind the leakage? Why this scandal is likely to turn around the situation in Syria?
quote” Phil
We’ve got a new offer. It’s about Syria again. Qataris propose an attractive deal and swear that the idea is approved by Washington.
We’ll have to deliver a CW to Homs, a Soviet origin g-shell from Libya similar to those that Assad should have.
They want us to deploy our Ukrainian personnel that should speak Russian and make a video record.
Frankly, I don’t think it’s a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous. Your opinion?
Kind regards David
flogchopsuey Says:
If you look around, there are a lot of people who have decided to go along with the bubba/baba game. Some only temporarily, in good faith, mistook the dictatorship for a republic, and tried to be honest hard working loyal citizens. Others who smelled the rat a long long time ago and figured the best way to survive was to look out for number one and to grab whatever share they could get. The third are the disgruntled small timers who never really got close to the inside at all, but are so unhappy with the way things are that they obsess with it, getting off on little snippets of this and that new fad in the political area, hoping that by some miracle, there is some yellow brick road with some utopia out there somewhere. Yes, even this game is defined by the bubbas/babbas, because the people playing this game are outsiders by definition, and the bubbas and babbas cultivate outsiders. They are able to define themselves as the insiders, and paint a picture of themselves as the white hats because of this third group playing the game the way they do.
Well, what choice does that leave those who are in the spirit of the BFP? For one thing, they know not to make needless enemies. For another they know to chose their words very carefully. For another they know what to do to avoid being put on the defensive unnecessarily. For another, they know what Pogo meant when he said “we have met the enemy”. For another, they are patient and do not whine. Finally, they are not knee jerk audiences for any hot button item that they are supposed to ohh and ahh over. Oh, they are not perfect. They get angry. They still get their eyes opened up. But they are all we got.
Xicha Says:
Orchestrate:to arrange or manipulate, especially by means of clever or thorough planning or maneuvering
Digest:to obtain information, ideas, or principles from; assimilate mentally
More notes from the interview to digest:
*1997 – it went to Plan B – during the next 3-4 year period there were dozens and dozens of joint operations – false flag terrorism – orchestrating the fundamentalist Muslim guerrillas, like Zawahiri.
*US asked Mubarak to release top Muslim fundamentalists (who were anti-Mubarak) – went to Turkey and became part of this movement. We need them in Turkey and have “tasks” for them.
*Special office in the pentagon running Gladio – exact (major) division spelled out in Susurluk documents. This did not end, it switched to Part B (using Islam, instead of nationalism) after the exposure of the Susurluk incident.
*When 9/11 happened – look at a certain arm of NATO.
*Cold War was never over – it is a continuing war for resources – ultimate prize is Central Asia and Caucasus. We are orchestrating the ethnic conflicts and religious factions in preparation for the coming conflicts.
*9/11 was NOT a case of our “partners” suddenly turning on us. We worked with them before 9/11 on false flag terrorism. We are working with them right now on false flag terrorism (e.g. Libya/Syria). It should be simple enough to deduce that 9/11 was another false flag terrorist event, with our partners, orchestrated by us, for the goal of moving our resource war forward.
(On the lighter side, ‘Gladio Babas’ is beating out ‘Glaring Paradoxes’. I also like ‘Footnote 44′ for a band name.)
SanderO Says:
Be careful with deductive reasoning:
“Deductive reasoning, also deductive logic or logical deduction or, informally, “top-down” logic,[1] is the process of reasoning from one or more general statements (premises) to reach a logically certain conclusion.[2]
Deductive reasoning links premises with conclusions. If all premises are true, the terms are clear, and the rules of deductive logic are followed, then the conclusion reached is necessarily true.
Deductive reasoning (top-down logic) contrasts with inductive reasoning (bottom-up logic) in the following way: In deductive reasoning, a conclusion is reached from general statements, but in inductive reasoning the conclusion is reached from specific examples.”
Just because the CIA engages in false flag ops (or has)… does not mean that everything the CIA does is a false flag op… or that all terrorist events are false flag ops.
Are there not any terrorist events which are not false flag ops? Answer.. YES.. most are not false flags.
Xicha Says:
You’re trying pretty hard to protect an incompetence argument, when it comes to 9/11. Incompetence keeps being used and keeps failing to explain whatever it’s used for. I hope it’s worth it.
SanderO Says:
Xicha,
Do you deny that terrorism exists?
Do you deny that terrorism/insurgency/blow back is how the weak battle the strong?
Do you deny that the NSS/MIC has not won a single war for 60 something years?
Do you deny the waste fraud and abuse and incompetence in the MIC?
Or do you see them as brilliantly executing all the wars, insurgencies, disasters around the world in flawless perfection and timing with no evidence of the detailed plans for it all?
Of course NSS/MIC is and will manage world events… color the narrative to suit their goals and agenda? Why would / should we expect otherwise? Why should we find it unusual for NSS/MIC to be involved in drugs? Drugs are lucrative for them, and a source of crime to justify their own existence? Terrorism and terrorists are likewise exploited as needed. Sting operations are common. Double and triple agents exist BECAUSE there are adversaries to infiltrate. And there is plenty of paranoia.
Of course exposing the details of how the NSS/MIC plays the game is not going to see the light of day. These are secrets that democracies cannot abide. Our gov turns a blind eye because NSS /MIC tell us this sort of criminality is the only way to make us safe. They get a pass and anyone who open their mouth on this is considered persona non grata.
Could 9/11 be a false flag conspiracy directed by insiders? Conceptually.. yes. But likely not and more likely a blow back event which was expected, not completely understood (it didn’t matter) because it laid the perfect foundation for the New American Century of full spectrum dominance. They got away with more lawlessness, wars, clamp down on our rights… and with the blessing of congress… all because we were led to believe this was making us safe. It’s the rise of fascism… the boiling frogs approach.
No… I don’t believe 9/11 was orchestrated by insiders.
flogchopsuey Says:
Here’s a suggestion for anyone who wants to keep talking about 9/11 in ways that Sibel Edmonds suggested that she would prefer not to be included in the comment thread of Gladio.
1. Create a temporary email account or a temporary Reddit account.
2. Publish your new email account name or reddit web link for the conversation here on the comments. The technical aspects of the comment forum at Reddit are actually pretty good.
Use the new account to move the 9/11 conversation over there. Any one who wants to follow it would be able to follow it. There is a 9/11 subreddit over at Reddit that is petty good for example, for this kind of conversation. That’s not censorship so much as it is keeping focus, because the link would be published right here.
If this is a bad idea, let me know. My feelings won’t be hurt.
flogchopsuey Says:
Regarding Gladio, if there was a plan to take down five to seven countries as of 9/20/01, to shift the balance of power, would this not be noteworthy in the context of Gladio?
Also Wesly Clark admitting that oil was a top priority.
The following video is one of my main corner posts. Comments please.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw
If this doesn’t tie in with Gladio or doesn’t belong here, please let me know.
Xicha Says:
@flogchopsuey:
9/11 was in the context of Gladio. This is what Sibel is saying. Please listen to the entire interview again at:
http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-595-sibel-edmonds-on-nato-terrorism-911-and-drug-running/
Xicha Says:
@SanderO: I’ve learned that corruption explains the problems with government much more than incompetence. Incompetence as an explanation is almost always a cover for corruption. I have no idea why you’re hanging on to that thread, cause it’s already broken for most of us.
Have you learned anything at this site? So far, all of your comments seem to come from some kind of authority. Ne’er a question or any semblance of humility. I’m not talking about self deprecation. “I’m wrong sometimes.” I’m talking about a real question. But I haven’t seen that from you. Only advice, dissuasion, and what I would say is distraction and conflation (all inside job theories must include CD for example). What does that have to do with the thread you cling to?
Is it only-child syndrome? That’s a more innocent explanation. You’ve already told us you’re not on anyone’s payroll. Were you and flogchopsuey both government brats?
SanderO Says:
Xicha,
Please stop with the armchair psychoanalysis. I am not an only child and never worked for the gov, nor did anyone in my family. I do hold and express strong opinions and like the fact discussion forums provide a platform for me to present my thinking and learn and read what others are thinking.
I am not sure I can accept you view of my use of incompetence as a explanation in lieu of corruption. I see plenty of corruption, and nepotism and corruption certainly do provide cover for incompetence. I do suspect that there were some sort of stand down orders (corruption) and blocking of intel (corruption). My assertions are about corruption, nepotism and *engineering* incompetence (negligence) related to the WTC and these are what enabled it to fall.
There certainly was plenty of corruption in the cover stories and false narratives… and that was handled with finesse… not incompetence.
Kindly, stop the condescending tone when addressing me. I read and listen to the presentations on this site, and others and all of them inform my understanding. I am not an BFP sycophant not an FDL one or one of any other site on the www. I appreciate the work Sibel has done and support her effort to bring accountability to the NSS.
I think for myself and speak for myself…. but like everyone build my understanding on what I read, hear and see.
flogchopsuey Says:
Ok Xicha I will listen to the whole Gladio interview again, thanks.
On another note, since we are looking for ideas on how to deal with the phenomenon of Gladio, police state, etc., here’s a thought for all:
Now that we know the corporate bubbas, criminal babas, and their henchmen lobbyists have castrated the power of government, perhaps we should pause and celebrate the half victory that someone figured out a way to overturn a sham democracy in a way that is now available to anyone who would have the discipline to figure out what they really want and organize themselves to do it. The invention of the chartered trading company might have been the beginning of the end for the dominance of the nation state. Now anyone who is focused enough has a chance to create an artificial personage with powers exceeding those of any single citizen. The path has been pointed out. The bubbas and the babbas have a good head start. But with the internet, there should be a way that the 100 million people just in this one global territory called America should be able to form an single purpose corporation in a matter of hours and days and deliver a block of power to a well selected point of impact. They will sell you the rope with which to hang them.
So, many would have issues with this. And there are issues. But some of the issues have to do with the fact that some people can get their s___ together for greed and other people are not getting their _____ together to make this a better world. For each next step we take, their is an evolution that must happen as we grow into it.