Where will the revolution in the USA come from … assuming it will ever come?

Welcome to our first experimental episode of Probable Cause. Our first few podcast episodes will explore different ideas and formats in order to determine how we can make this new podcast series interactive and spontaneous.

On this episode, after a brief introduction and discussion of the objectives behind this new show, we will delve right into our first topic: the likelihood of a revolution here in the United States, identifying (or predicting) the political segment(s) of our population most likely to revolt.

We will also discuss the general notion of revolution and the importance of not viewing a revolution as an end unto itself, together with my own direct experience with the 1979 Iranian revolution.

This episode is only the beginning of our interactive debate and discussion of this particular topic. We have several important questions for you, and our next episode will be based on your responses and questions posed in the comments section below.

Listen to the full episode here:

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Comments

  1. tonywicher says:

    I’m proud to be the first to post in Sibel’s new seminar on revolution in the United States. Political regimes are overthrown when they can no longer control underlying economic changes. I would say that we have come to that point in the United States. The financial rule of the City of London and Wall Street oligarchy is obsolete and is destroying the economies of the United States and Europe. Easy money policies (“quantitative easing”) have concealed the weakness of the economy by creating all kinds of massive financial bubbles and one of which can explode at any moment. 2015 really does look like the year of a major collapse. I do not believe you are going to see a revolution before that happens. The question is what form will the “revolution” take when it does. The ruling class will pull every possible trick of propaganda to misdirect people’s anger onto something other than itself, such as engineer false flag attacks so people will direct their anger at “Islamic terrorists”, domestic or foreign, or start a new Cold War with Russia.

  2. Phillip Kokesh says:

    Hi Sibel,

    I am enthusiastic about your concept, which seems to be your own unique approach to what Corbett is also trying to do with his write-ins.
    You identified so many of my own peeves in listening to podcasts, where interesting people get the same old questions about their past work, never getting to the new stuff- Hosts’ side trips and flights of fancy, constant interruptions, de-railing, etc. And I can tell when you get peeved yourself, sometimes, which seems very real to me. You are always nice, but don’t appear to suffer fools gladly…
    Anyway, I’ll be listening. I’ve been following you for a while, and do like your videos and interviews, as you always have something important to say. I’ve got your books; enjoyed The Lone Gladio after your’s & James’ discussion about it. I have Classified Woman as well, but haven’t read it yet. There’s so much good information available now I have a hard time keeping up! So much to learn, so little time. Also, I must admit, I am having the time of my life living it right now at this incredible moment in time! It’s like I’m finally getting the answers to almost 72 years of questions, and I never though I would, and I am deeply grateful.You are one of a pantheon of truth-tellers who are doing incredible work!
    Know for a certainty you have made a serious contribution to the general awakening, and I’m equally sure you will continue to attract a wider and wider audience. Not only are you smart, quick-witted, knowledgeable and articulate, you are mighty restful on the eyes, and a pleasure to watch because of your passion and animation. It’s a beautiful thing!
    Sincerely,
    phillip

  3. Iosua Bray says:

    I’m glad you borough this topic up Sibel, its something I speculate about often. Here is my brief analysis-

    There are two main currents for revolutionary change in the US. Those I will loosely refer to as the Anarchists and the Constitutionalists.

    The Occupy Wallstreet movement wan deemed a failure by the media but this misses the point in that it showed a sizable number of people have adopted the outlook and practice of Anarchism and Revolutionary Socialism. Economic equality has become a rallying point for revolutionaries of the anarchist,socialist and even libertarian bent. The anarchists have been particularly active in engaging the police during black lives matter protests and there has been a noticeable upsurge in acts of direct action.

    Now if you take a look a the Bundy Ranch situation, this proved a rallying point for what we could broadly term Constitutional types(libertarians, rural conservatives,militias) worried about government overreach. We were so close to having that explode into a firefight that I’m convinced would have ignited a country wide insurgency. The Oathkeepers and other militant groups have been emboldened and recently deployed to other hotspots such as Ferguson and the rhetoric at their public rallies has reached revolutionary levels. Apparently the number of militia groups have skyrocketed in the last six years to over 1,000+ groups.

    I suspect that the initial revolutionary spark will most likely come from one of these groups, it seems to me that no other segment of the population has the capabilities or drive..

  4. allan london says:

    Good/Interesting question – having lived in London for many years I have NEVER seen such a level of collective dissatisfaction with the political and economic system. So the first revolution starts in London.

    I am absolutely certain that the monarchy and constitution will not survive in its current form. The British are slowly becoming one big underclass with an oligarchy of plutocrats on top. We will become a republic with a more ceremonial monarchy and this will be the concession that will be agreed as Charles takes the throne in the next parliament Here are my four scenarios for the UK

    Scenario 1 – Sectarian Nationalism in UK as the Irish Scottish and Welsh move away from the gravitational cehtre of London. This could be bad for migrants but would effectively create a Dis United Kingdom – of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    Scenario 2 – We go back in time and return to Hobbes view of the world. The creation of a strict normative British Identity enforced by a strong state apparatus (mix of non state private sector and state actors) that enforces the will of the sovereign national security state apparatus. It will not lead by a single person but rather an ideal/commanders intent that liberal market centric democratic principles (corporate state structures) need to be protected at all costs alongside a gradual withdrawal from international political influence an the replacement of military with corporate info gathering and policing structures.

    Scenario 3 – Increase in mental health problems for the British Nation as they try to balance these contradictory trends

    Scenario 4 – Evolution of Capitalism and emergence of an immersive digital counterculture that moves people away from activism and into the world of interactive virtual three dimensional lived spaces that act as pacificatory zones for the citizens of the West.

    These are my initial thoughts from a UK perspective have no ideas really about how the USA might evolve as I have not lived there but I would say that it will become more latinised and that the next phase in the US game is the manifestation of a new transglobal feminism as a panacea for world problems. Latinised means stronger influence of Catholicism in places and a different form of promotion of American Values and different family structures. Latinio heroes or superheroes in movies etc

    The marketing of Hilary as a Prophet who sees issues of gender liberty, enfranchisment and education as the new future for the world. This will lead to a rebranding of the American Franchise as a Matriachal Pacificatory Force that cares for the world, the environment an the consumer rights of women accross the world. This wont lead to major change but it will help reboot the franchise of global liberty and equality for all.

  5. Hi Sibel, and thanks for continuing to think so creatively about the potential uses of media; this is a good experiment. The first thing I realize as I ponder your challenge is that, for all I’ve read and studied about politics, war, intelligence operations, social change, and so forth — and it’s a reasonable amount — I haven’t been much of a student of revolution per se.

    What are some models of how they’ve happened in the past?

    I would like to know more about the Czech “Velvet” Revolution. It seems that this sprang from very broad-based protests, initially repressed but then growing, becoming generalized. There was surveillance of the population, there was a military poised to do violence, and the potential was there for it to be crushed — as seems would be inevitable in the US. But somehow, because of that particular historical moment with everything going on in neighboring countries, including the fall of the Berlin wall, it’s like the state chose not to fight, accepted its fate, collapsed. A poet-playwright became president. Amazing! It’s almost hard to believe it was real. But then what? Embrace of of capitalism. Such a boring denouement. One wishes something more mind-boggling could have ensued somehow. Some unimaginable new form of artistic-literary society.

    You’ve stipulated that total economic collapse is not an allowable variable in this exercise. I think without that, I can’t picture the massive broad-based protests that could maybe make a government resign. So what would it take with things more or less as they are now? I think I can only imagine a right-wing small-government tea-partyish gun-loving group doing something bold, but only succeeding if a substantial contingent of breakaway military and/or militarized police joined in. A sort of quasi-coup. But the truth is, I can more easily imagine a slow painful collapse into ashes, from which something new might arise.

    So yeah. I’d like to know more about the history of revolutions (successful and failed). A better grasp of history wouldn’t necessarily predict the future, but informed opinions are usually better than random guesses. I eagerly look forward to your thoughts on the Iranian experience, among other things.

    • tonywicher says:

      It looks to me also as though revolutionary change will not happen without an economic shock. My hope is that it will be big enough to wake enough people up without being completely destructive. I think there will be such shocks in the near future and that the best hope lies in people who have real economic solutions that they have been advocating for years to step in and take the lead. There are such solutions and there are such advocates.

  6. CuChulainn says:

    thanks for this stimulating broadcast, Sibel. it would be interesting to hear a discussion on these lines in a live chat format. i doubt there is any true revolutionary potential in the US, for reasons that Sombart spelled out years ago: all political discourse in the USA, from what passes for the Left to what passes for the Right including the oxymoronic capitalist anarchists, is circumscribed by what Europeans call liberalism; Karl Marx exists only as a bogeyman in this country, and Hegel is inconceivable. Until the message of these two thinkers is widely understood no true revolution is possible, and the chances of that in what the Russians call Pindostan are more remote than say a credible US government investigation of the events of 11 September 2001; in practical terms promoting a wider public understanding of the nature of terrorism in the tradition of Sanguinetti and Debord is probably the most positive step one could take, and you have done more in that direction than anyone i can think of.

  7. Let’s imagine a revolution against the oligarchy, instead of the government. They are the ones who have held our government captive to do their bidding, meanwhile being set out as the scapegoat for all the backlash of the policies which were ultimately born in the minds of the oligarchy. They laugh all the way to the bank as the people lash out against their government, which represents their ability to empower themselves, and to evolve.

    Let’s separate the government from the criminals who have compromised it and are holding it hostage. Think of it as a hostage situation, with the people’s own ability to run their own government as the hostage.

    I can see the unions, if they were to step up their risk taking and increase their membership and strength, inspiring nation-wide strikes. Shutting down the financial system and hitting the oligarchy where it hurts.

    I can see eventual courts with judges who just can’t take it anymore and put themselves at risk by allowing secret evidence to be seen by all parties involved in a case. Or by standing up to their establishment owners by having fair trials and decisions.

    I can see occupiers from all backgrounds, stepping out of their backgrounds and into the common space being occupied. To be a part of a movement that will ultimately be fighting for the public ownership of the commons. They will be another public face for the revolution against the real criminals, the real power, the real owners, whose stooges were place in or bought from government in order to effectively use it as a human shield against the people.

    I can see the rural land owners having their stand-offs with monsanto. What they’ll need is for the courts to be fair. They’ll need our government to be a fair system which protects them from the oligarchy vultures, instead of local police marching them off their property in full military regalia.

    My main point is that we need to think carefully about just what this revolution is against and what it is to save.

    More later, but, Sibel, I love your new idea and want to encourage you to keep trying this, even if it doesn’t work perfectly at first. The members’ ability to interact with you can be so beneficial for all parties. It’s what you’ve done to some extent throughout the lives of your blogs and this is an excellent evolution to more serious and considered involvement. Thank you!

    • I will add that the public informing themselves is and will be necessary for revolution and eternal vigilance for liberty and justice for all. Those presenting the truth as they know it are and will bebe the natural resources which sustain the informed public and provide sparks and fuel for revolutionary movements. Even though you can’t expect a revolution, just because you’ve published some hard hitting information, doesn’t mean that it is not ultimately partly responsible for what revolution that may come.

      I continue to think it’s possible that some published evidence, for example the Gladio Plan B information or a future expose on the shoot down of flight 93, may cause some domino to fall in ways we can’t predict. I’m very grateful for all you’ve done to make important information available to the public.

    • tonywicher says:

      Xicha,

      Are you aware of the campaign to release the 28 pages redacted from the “other” 9/11 report, the Joint Inquiry into Intelligence Community Activities before and after the Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001, which show the financing of two of the 9/11 “hijackers” from the bank accounts of Prince Bandar bin Sultan? Senator Bob Graham of Florida, who chaired the joint House/Senate inquiry has been trying to get them released since 2002. This campaign is gaining some momentum. Senator Walter Jones has introduced H. Res. 14 to release the redacted pages into the new session of Congress. The courts have ruled that Saudi Arabia does not have diplomatic immunity from being sued by the 9/11 families. On Jan. 7, there was a press conference with Sen. Graham, Rep. Walter Jones, Rep. Stephen Lynch and the 9/11 families. I would like to put in the link for people to watch this press conference, but it seems like when I put a link in my post, it doesn’t get published. Those who are interested can easily find it by googling it. There is also a link on Jones’ congress.gov website.

      • Hi Tony,

        That’s very interesting, regarding accountability. But, I’d like to iterate the message from Sibel, in her Gladio Plan B interviews and elsewhere, that Saudi involvement simply translates to US/NATO directed Saudi involvement. So, while I’m all for following through with this effort for transparency, I would caution against scapegoating the Saudis in ways that falsely satisfy the question of Saudi involvement. But, dominoes are dominoes, so let’s look for opportunities to use any information released to help us continue on the path towards accountability for the institutionalized program of destabilization which lies in an office in the Pentagon. And beyond. Again, the narrative provided by Sibel about Gladio Plan B gives us context we must consider during the 28 pages investigation. Make sense? Thanks for the info and maybe try posting the links; I haven’t been auto-moderated for a little while, so maybe the plug-in has been disabled (I hope).

        • Dave Short says:

          Agreed on the Saudi’s Xicha. Logical question. Who are the Saudi’s good buddies? Who benefits? Who gives the Saudi’s their marching orders?

          Pretty easy to find out, even Michael Moore knew this stuff.
          peace
          d

        • tonywicher says:

          I agree that we must not scapegoat the Saudis. They are not the center of the problem. Saudi Arabia and the rest of the oil kingdoms have been Anglo-American protectorates for three centuries. They are not sovereign independent countries at all. They would not be in power for a week without U.S. and British support. They do create and finance terrorism, but in so doing they are only providing a front and a misdirection. The terrorists serve Anglo-American policy, which uses them to destabilize and overthrow governments that will not bow the knee. The 28 pages prove not only Saudi complicity in 9/11, but Bush complicity. Prince Bandar bin Sultan is also known far and wide as Bandar Bush.

  8. great concept for this sort of discussion. i like the urgency your theme song by Queen presents brings to the situation! i have viewed this song as a sort of personification of the ruling class’s consideration for most the world. another one gone, and another, these psychopaths trade in it — so what will *we* do? stand idly by and watch it as a ping pong tournament from our western perch till that erodes from under us as well? and unfortunately that’s how i see a lot of the “left” at the present moment in the US; i consider myself as someone who belongs on “that side” but most are, either unwittingly or to spite others more committed to change and who are much more knowledgeable on certain topics, complete dupes who through their actions stand on the side of empire. they are not even to the left of anyone, they are dupes — “useful idiots”.

    unfortunately we are presented with so much disinformation — and it is in higher gear this year it seems or maybe i and many among my “cadre” are sharpening our sensitivities better — that one has to work very hard at not being such a dupe. fact checking every possible source provided by compromised outlets to not only see if one is getting useful information but what front the author or “journalist” is posing as to benefit whomever down the line. the “twitter left” barely wants to consider this seriously — the branding of mini-celeb journalists leaves a circle jerk of status seeking ill-informed nitwits leading the pack to get out the most clever “take” in 140 characters or less. this group, these faux leftists, pose no threat to the establishment and a revolution of any kind would have them soiling their Banana Republic chinos.

    largely left ideology is nonexistent in the US theatre. there has been successful “consciousness raising” as far as ideas on sexuality, gender, and race, but not put into an international context that challenges DC or even realistic ideas of just economic parity under the current regime this tepid left-of-center liberalism is easily channeled toward rebranding of establishment political non-choices, like Allan London brought up in regard to Hillary.

    the push further rightward to combat nascent socialist movements that dotted the landscape, intersecting at times in unexpected places, around a hundred years ago has obscured the reactionary tendencies in left movements and political intelligence has made abundant the pathologization by way of shallow aestheticization one is able to subject oneself to should they find themselves angry and wanting to resist. this does not make left movements blameworthy as failures to end imperial projects but can illuminate further our understanding on what a revolution from that side would even mean.

    that being said, right entryism has been very successful among those claiming left aesthetics by presenting itself as the only sort of opposition when in fact it ends up making stooges out of those on the right who view their resistance as part of a movement against government overreach, individual liberty, and all the other memes coded right, often libertarian, that you mentioned. for those reasons if a “revolutionary” movement were to coalesce, all else being equal at the present time, it would be nationalist and fascist, and it would be devastating for those doing the bidding of the “elites”. all signs point to a complete breakdown should these conditions present themselves within the year, with no real left to combat it. rightists and nationalists are armed not only with weapons but the bravado of an entire culture industry behind them telling them that they have the duty to take out anyone who stands in their way, like the “cultural marxists”, “politically correct liberals” that the corporate media convince them are the ones ruining society. i have many more thoughts on this but wow this is a long comment already. looking forward to more. thanks for the opportunity!

  9. fatheadjoe says:

    No recommendations yet. Intriguing questions, keep going.

    I see no revolution coming in the US, but a series of moderate adjustments toward gradually lower standards of living as recommended by right-leaning technocrats. We’ll be told this is the inevitable balancing of the books, the inevitable lowered expectations. The softer, American version of structural adjustment. The surveillance state will remain subtle enough for the vast majority to not notice, let alone rebel. Religious fundamentalists won’t play much of a role.

    I’ve got $5 on it.

    • Thomas Wonsetler says:

      The surveilance state is NOT subtle anymore ! Most people are aware to an extent, though not necessarilly as knowledgeable as they could be if they studied all this stuff more ! Most people are not leaders and we need real intelligent, compassionate, highly knowledgable leaders to lead them. This new revolution is a revolution primarily from the “inside” out, a developement of Consciousness, Enlightenment, Yoga, Samadhi, Nirvana, and any other names for it, which radiates more and more positive energy and decreases the negative, Its what has kept the situation from being much worse and is transforming the world into the New Epoch, due to happen about 2025 ! Second to that, Dr. Steven Greer and CSETI with its Orion Project will create Zero Point Energy or Free Energy technology and we will be liberated from slavery to oil, gas, coal, and nuclear energy corporations, and their wars and devastation will end ! Everyone should support Dr. Greer and CSETI and their Orion Project ! Also Zeitgeist, with Peter Joseph and others have real economic solutions that we need to support ! Im not an expert on it and it may need some refinements, but it is an excellent start ! Everyone should support these ! We will not change the world through fighting the dark forces directly, but by turning on the light which will dispel the darkness in the ways ive mentioned and any other real solutions ! Lets all support these and not just talk about the darkness and how we are disgusted with it ! While it was and is necessary to expose the scumbag empire, the next step is DOING these and any other solutions such as supporting natural, organic food, natural, wholistic, Ayurvedic, Oriental, Naturopathic, Homeopathic healthcare and medicine, and doing a truly Spiritual Enlightenment practice such as Adidam, Art of Living Foundation, Siddha Yoga Foundation, Self Realization Fellowship, Ananda Sangha, or any other truly empowered practice from a lineage of truly Enlightened Spititual Masters !

  10. What we call the information age is to a great extent the dis-information age. I’m an old man who’s tried to dig his way to bedrock truth for decades. It’s been a long strange trip. The more I uncover, the less confidence I have in my grasp of the substance of reality. However, I’ve seen a pattern in the form of things, if not their substance. On that basis, I’m willing to hazard a guess concerning the protocol of a possible revolution. The whos and whys are up to the scripters of the narrative. Oh yes, there must be a narrative.

    Sibel mentioned synthetic terrorism. We live in the synthetic age, to be sure. It’s not a great leap to presume any revolution in the near future, if it happens, will itself be synthetic. It will almost certainly be initiated by a scripted destabilizing event, or series of same, and the course of the revolution will proceed along the lines of a scripted narrative. That is the form I would expect. The substance of the narrative I cannot predict. Whatever it is, I expect virtually everyone will fall for it, myself included. So…what ultimate objective of this exercise?

    Perhaps to inflict such horrors as to scar the collective psyche with a deep-seated dread of instability sufficient to persist for generations. In other words, we may endure a scripted fake revolution painful and frightening enough to constitute a long-lasting vaccination against the real thing.

    • kariflack says:

      thinking on this and getting some more guidance from different sources, a synthetic coup that could even prevent the Obama admin from riding out its term (what does he care? JPMorgan or whoever calls next for the resume) coming from a military takeover comprised of angry, mobilized (convenient dupe) constitutionalists could be a possibility.

    • You blew my mind, Knarf. Talk about critical thinking!!!! Sure. Synthetic terrorism, synthetic wars, synthetic opposition (all the NGOs & alternative media outlets funded by the deep state itself), why not use synthetic revolution/change in order to prevent a real one.

      This is what I mean when I say: how much we can learn and expand with each other. Brilliant thinking!!!!!

      • CuChulainn says:

        yes synthetic revolution (color revolution) is precisely the term for Libya 1989, the Arab spring, Paris 1968 (at least the student side of it), maybe even Paris 1789

      • I’d say most coups are synthetic. Let’s face it, the CIA have specialised in overthrowing governments in apparent revolutions as a mechanism for furthering their power in a particular country. This is essentially what happened in the US with Watergate, the removal of Nixon and the establishing of the CIA-NeoCon clique in the Republican Party who dominated US politics for years.

        And before the CIA you had MI6, before that you had whoever else. The Bolshevik Revolution was, in my opinion, just such a synthetic coup event. Once established, the Bolsheviks re-founded the secret police and went after the anarchists, who were the real threat to the Russian deep state. They wiped out the anarchists in Russia, and thus helped destroy the international anarchist movement, something the Tsarist system never managed to do.

        So, something like that is more than possible in the US, and one of the themes of a lot of these DOD and CIA-sponsored movies is revolution, it is something they have promoted and encouraged quite explicitly.

        It is also true that revolutions create power vacuums, and unscrupulous people will try to push themselves into that power vacuum. That is, at heart, the Gladio strategy of tension. Create tension, encourage polarisation and into the vacuum between the polar opposites you inject your agenda. The CIA have already done this in the US, there is nothing stopping them from doing it again. For Vietnam read Afghanistan. For Ellsberg read Snowden. Things are quite similar right now to how they were in ’72…

        • andrei_tudor says:

          And that leads us to the conclusion that revolutions are not possible, at least not in this day and age. Because, if they were possible, the law of probability says that they would have happened somewhere, yet every one of these “events” is described as scripted.
          So, one of the two: either revolutions are possible, not just on paper, and if so please show me one, or they are not, in which case our best hope is to take advantage as best we can of one of these managed coups.

          • Cuba?

          • andrei_tudor says:

            Yes, Cuba might be a good example. To my knowledge, no one has claimed that Castro was in the service of other interests, or that he was in it for himself – if he were, he would have probably been bought off. Which begs the question, how did Castro manage to keep the Cuban revolution from being co-opted or subverted in such a hostile environment? There might be lessons to be learned from that.

    • David Carlson says:

      This synthetic revolution you speak of has already been seen many times in the anals of history. Egyptian, Indian, Mesopotamian myth and the written history of Roman, Chinese and medieavil Europe are full of plots and counterplots using such tactics. Most recently the London, Birmingham and Manchester riots a couple of years ago here in the UK. This was a riot manufactured to make discontent demonstrators look like lawless looters. The same thing has happened across the US in recent weeks usurping the civil outrage against rampant police brutality to paint any protest as willful lawlessness. So how does the protester or the ethical revolutionary counter such a tactic? Other than vigilance at demonstrations there is no chance to counter this when the MSM already has the story written. Lynching those caught and exposing them to lynch law is brutal but may help identify or even prevent future infiltrators. But as a nonviolent soul this is not what I want to see.
      Truth is that mass apathy, the state of education on these matters and inculcated indoctrination of the masses makes revolution a pipe dream.

  11. I’d say that the most likely source of revolt would be from the armed constitutionalists, commonly associated with the libertarian right. The primary reason I feel that way is because they seem to be the only political sector that possesses both philosophical principles as well as the courage of their convictions. That they’re organized, tend to be military veterans, and have guns tends to persuade me of their potential. That their guiding principles are fairly well-aligned with those of most Americans who value the bill of rights also suggests their political viability.

    I’d say there is no such thing as a proto-revolutionary left at present. The left strikes me as an amalgam of spoiled brats, complaining vociferously about perceived social wrongs until such time as their complaints adversely affect their career aspirations. There are some noteworthy exceptions to that general pattern, of course, but as a group, the disenfranchised left is disorganized and bereft of a natural mass constituency. Thus its ability to become an independent power is significantly diminished.

    Having made those two observations, I don’t feel that present conditions are such that social unrest of tectonic proportions could be considered as anywhere near the horizon. So long as most people are warm and have food in their bellies, the dominant sectors of society are free to pursue their objectives with impunity.

  12. andrei_tudor says:

    My feeling is that a revolution is very difficult to predict. I lived through one, the revolution that overthrew the Communist regime in Romania in 1989, and my recollection of that event is that at the time it seemed absolutely impossible that any large scale movement against the government would take place. And yet, a few days later, Ceausescu was running for his life and the whole police state edifice was crumbling. I remember Chris Hedges saying something similar about the fall of the Berlin wall, that even up to a few hours before people started tearing it down, nobody could have predicted it. The books I’ve read about the history of the first world war paint a similar kind of picture with respect to Russia – on the eve of the war, and even up to the moment when the revolution started, Russia was viewed with envy and fear by the western powers for, among other things, the morale of its fighting force.

    My current interpretation of the events I’ve lived through, and the ones I’ve read about, is that for a revolution to happen, a tipping point must be reached in the conscientiousness of a great majority of the people, a point where life as it currently is no longer seems worth living. I think we are close to such a moment in the western world – the rampant consumerism, and the oppression and destruction we visit on other peoples is so sickening that life brings us no satisfaction – there is not much to live for, and the future for our kids looks even bleaker absent a dramatic change.

    But I simply cannot venture to predict when the rebellion will come, and what form it will take.

  13. Hi Sibel,
    I knew you must be brewing up something new – and I also knew it would NOT be boring. You didn’t disappoint!
    Your first question was: “How do you feel about this format?” As “Tricky Dick” was fond of saying: Let me say this about that.
    Diversity is a great thing – and we are a group of people with diverse backgrounds and ways of looking at life. For any group of people to explore ideas and share views, there should be some common ground to start with – and we have that. We all subscribe to BFP and highly respect you for who you are and what you are doing. The key word there is the same one necessary for any group or society at large to function well together. That word is RESPECT. Without personal respect for the views of each individual, there can be no meaningful dialog. It could be said that the lack of this respect is the cause of the world situation we are concerned about here.
    For the sake of this discussion, I will assume we at BFP have achieved this amongst our group. I think you feel the same.
    Thus, from that place within me, I can answer your first question. I feel good about what you are doing with this format. We all know your extensive experience and gift of observation, are coupled with a very important ability to ask excellent questions. This ability cannot be overstated, because without the right questions, the needed answers will never be forthcoming.
    I thank you for assuming this role for us and I am certainly willing to give it a go!
    Now – as to your second question around the general notion of revolution; I don’t think I will venture a comment on that one yet. Before I do, I will ask you to give us your definition of the word REVOLUTION. What does that mean to you in the context of this discussion?
    I will make one other comment in regard to the issue of the American people not being aware of the fact that they are being systematically lied to (Big Time) and are seemingly oblivious to what is being done in their name around the world. You have addressed this many times in the past. In any conversation about revolution in this country (no matter how it is defined), this situation will need to be addressed again. It often seems hopeless that enough people will awaken to the truth. I don’t think it is hopeless though. I think there is some movement there – in many individuals I have met. What I am seeing here is something we could call an apocalypse. It could be seen as an apocalypse in the sense of the Greek meaning of the word – a lifting of the veil. I see people noticing when something happens that lifts the veil of the shadows – and we get a glimpse of what is going on with the puppeteers. Then the veil crashes down again. But more and more people are noticing this taking place. You have lifted many a veil, for example – and many other independent questioners are finding ways to get through to people. It’s a very slow process though. And without a large portion of the population becoming aware, I am not sure how major changes will happen. Certainly not from the top down, and not with the usual groups that take off and then are coopted by the very people they were trying to expose.
    So let us begin and put our heads and hearts together and see what we come up with. I, for one, am with you on this quest Sibel. I am open to and looking forward to all the ideas that flow from this – for I have very few answers right now. Thank you for all you do!!!!
    Warmest Regards,
    Dennis

  14. The revolution can only when the US people realize that they are being dumbed down by the education system and trained not to think, are taught about geography and real history , not the US version, and encouraged think for themselves and question whatever is being spoon-fed to them by their controllers.

    There can be a life with interests other than just watching “Dancing with the Stars”, or sitting in front of a TV with a six pack and watching all the latest sports so that you have something to talk about around the water cooler the next day.

    • I think that this could be a major source of revolution – people dealing with the public education system. Parents, students, teachers, and administrators who stand up against the dumbing down. It seems to keep getting worse, with Common Core now infiltrating most schools. This, again, is an obvious play by the corporate snakes, the establishment, the oligarchy, who wear not only the federal government, but also the state governments like finger puppets.

      I sure hope that we are informed enough not to rebel against the empty shell of a discarded puppet. And we don’t just try to switch puppeteers. It’s the theater owners who have constructed their theater around your house, your town, your state, country, …world.

      We have a government that we should try out some day. It needs to be dusted off, after our revolution removing the oligarchy octopus and pulling its tentacles out of our eye sockets.

      HERE: I want to disagree with anyone who equivocates the government with the corporate criminals. Who says their mixture of corporate fascism is equally to blame amongst the two. We have one obvious criminal corruptor and that is the established elite class of owners. Government is an idea that can be debated, regarding its size shape and characteristics, but it will exist amongst any group of humans and in any relationship, voluntary or involuntary. There will be rules and government is a system of rules, plain and simple.

      So let’s not confuse a revolution for anything but getting rid of our top elite (slave) owner class. This has almost nothing to do with government, because they would run their rackets by any means necessary.

  15. I just thought I’d add the possibility that a revolution could be started by a real life Lone Gladio or small team of rebellious black ops movers and shakers. We’re you implanting the idea with your novel, to get us all pre-conditioned for this ? Did the revolution already begin, with The Lone Gladio ? Have you gone and started a revolution , Sibel ?

  16. At this rate we’ll have our next episode in a day or two. So much food for thought, so may thought-provoking perspectives/responses!! I love this!

    I think one of the first thing we’ll talk about in our next episode: what do we mean by ‘revolution.’ You brought up a valid question with this. Not only definition, but types of revolutions. Are we talking about a major revolution that wipes out an entire system, all together, with the purpose of replacing it with something totally different? Are we talking about revolution within particular areas within the system itself? Are we talking about gradual change that ends up revolutionize certain aspects of the political landscape? Yes. You are absolutely right, for the purpose of this discussion we need address, clarify, and specify what we mean by revolution. Will be done:-)

    ps- the amazing, articulate, eloquent BFP community is shining through these comments. Dennis is right: our community consist of so many different point of views/political philosophies, yet it is able to unite in civil discussion and further collective critical thinking … Now, how many sites/forums have we seen out there like this one? I don’t know about you, but I usually witness trivial comments, personal attacks, polarized grouping, name-calling … Hooray BFP!

    • kariflack says:

      a comrade of mine wrote a very comprehensive analysis a couple of years ago, just thought i’d leave it here http://www.thenorthstar.info/?p=10229

    • Brilliant as always, Sibel. I suspect my mindset can be a bit more savage, yet the idea’s and input read here feels encouraging. I have always been solution driven- the last decade a lot changed, but I still had my teeth clenched- holding out, knowing if ANYONE would take the first step, it would likely be you.
      You know where I stand.
      ~k

    • Dave Short says:

      Thank you Sibel for answering my question before I posited it. ie… “What do we mean by revolution?”

      My short and obvious answer to this would be that it was begun long ago and it continues to this day in the form of informed thought, debate, activism and resistance. You and this group are an excellent example (And I am very happy to have returned to the fold after a long hiatus). The good thing about this Truth/Information/Revolution aspect is that it’s relentless.

      Every time a fact gets pointed out or a question asked that opens someone’s mind to the truth of the world situation, regardless of whether or not that person chooses to DO anything with that information, they cannot truly “Unknow” it. Once awake, never truly asleep again.

      Which is why my primary base of revolutionary activism has been and will always be September 11th 2001. It’s one of those events that is just so enormous and horrific that it captured the entire world’s imagination in a single day. (Remember, “We’re all Americans now”? and… how quickly Bush moved to crush that sentiment.) Even with all the horrendous wars and scams and crimes, somehow to me, 911 is the litmus test. If someone is presented with clear facts and refuses to grasp the obvious, I usually look for another tree to bark up.

      Once you realize that the 911 attack was nothing like the official story, you just get swept along down the rabbit hole. Every person who takes this tumble is one more person on our side in the revolution and active or not, one more point of resistance to the darker forces at work.

      I personally believe that we’re nearing a tipping point and when it is reached, the inevitable result will be enormous change. (A birth if you will). Unfortunately, like most births it’s likely to be accompanied with lots of screaming and blood, but also with the promise of a new life.

      I guess this is the point where I have to accept on faith that what comes of it all is something beautiful as well as new.

      Peace on earth and God bless us every one.
      d

    • Dave Short says:

      This is going to sound like blatant shilling, but I assure you, it’s not.

      Want a real revolution?

      SIBEL EDMONDS FOR PRESIDENT 2016!

      heh. If you’re even willing to respond to that Sibel, just as a mental exercise, who would you choose as your running mate?

      Peace
      d

  17. Xicha, you sly fox, you. What an interesting question. 🙂
    Dennis

  18. BTW , it sounds like that echo-ey room sound has been successfully compressed. Sounds good, Sibel. Now go take a listen to your sound from a couple years ago , when you sounded like you were in a phone booth on top of Mt Everest during a snow storm . You’ve come a long way!

    Play with the dials a little to see if you can make it a little more dry (less effect), would be my suggestion for a final tweak. It sounds just a tiny bit too wet now, with subtle noise that sounds like the noise your mouth makes when it opens (not the speech). But , this is subtle and it really does sound great – way to hang in there with all the audio tech suggestions!

    • Xicha, you read my mind. During breakfast, it occurred to me: ‘I should have asked about the sound quality!’

      You know how technologically-challenged I am. We have barely figured out the ‘compressor.’ We started by setting all the sound buttons (on the mixer) on the ‘middle’ dial. Now, slowly we’ll play with these buttons (so many of them!!!) … Also, I have been pretty uptight during recording: sit straight to be level with the microphone, talk slower than usual (not my usual fast fast fast talk), … hopefully, at some point, I’ll be able to relax and loosen-up.

      • Dave Short says:

        @Xicha. Agreed, the sound quality is very good and @Sibel, your pacing sounds good to me. I am just now listening to episode 2, so my reply above was out of sequence, but I am really liking this new format.

  19. andrei_tudor says:

    Regarding the necessity of knowing as a precondition for revolution: I believe there are two types of knowledge, I’ll call them conscious and sub-conscious. The conscious type is the one we are able to articulate, while the sub-conscious is what we feel which is sometimes in direct contradiction to what we consciously know. My hope is that people instinctively feel that the system is rotten, even if they could not tell you why, and even while they keep on defending it because the objective facts that they are aware of do not allow them to think otherwise. Once the veil is lifted off the facts, the transfer from the sub-conscious to the conscious is instantaneous. I really like the saying by Victor Hugo “nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come”, and I believe this is what it refers to – once the emotional priming for a sea change has taken place, the change will happen against all so-called objective odds, and against all opposition.

    I’ve seen this in Romania in 1989. An “objective” analysis of the situation before the revolution started showed it to be impossible, yet a couple of days later everyone knew that its time had come, and that there would be no stopping it.

  20. One more comment (brainstorming) about the new project. When you first mentioned this on twitter, I immediately imagined a part of it being: you inviting various willing BFP members to participate in round table-like podcasts or vlogs, in live discussion with you and other BFP producers; to step up on stage with you for a moment. I don’t know if this is feasible or part of what you imagined, but I thought I’d mention it to see what the response/feedback to this idea is from other BFP members. Maybe this would make sense at some point where there is a definitive issue to debate and vested BFP members could participate with some effective arguments.

    I thought this idea of live interaction with Sibel would be exciting, yet risky 😉 and that members would appreciate listening and/or participating in this way. I think it would open up the round-table conversations in unknown ways, with a variety of passionate perspectives. I would appreciate listening/watching something like this.

    Thoughts, anyone?

    • How about BFP Idol, where Sibel and other BFP Producers are the judges and make rude comments after your performance 😉 but the top performer gets a show?
      (sorry, I couldn’t resist)

    • I agree. I love the idea of having regular RT session with our members. First, we need to find out how we can make it happen-the technical side. Second, figure out the best format/group size. I’d say for each session having a group of 4 or maximum five…

      We’ll graduate to that stage- sooner or later.

  21. Alongside everyone else on the planet, I live inside the extreme distortions created by the violent 911 deception and the continual processes set up by that egregious act. Or, that that single act of deception is the most obvious portal into the ongoing deceptive processes keeping ‘the world’ in its present fragmented and fearful state. 911 is the reason we are here talking. Therefor that single act is the best point of entry into revolutionary change.

    I emphasise . The superstates ability to completely construct and own Global ‘reality’ at this base truth/lie level – has dire consequence on my ideas of revolution. Which I generally see as messy, violent and spontaneous with a long draconian police state-of-terror following.
    Optimist in me sees a ‘thinking revolution’ -as opposed to a colour one run by NED- coming thru the truth of 911. Break that single construct – it being a prison of thought – and the deconstruction will produce profound change in the human being. Internal revolution of an entire world view.
    Thats best option. Wishful thinking of course, given the system creating and maintaining 911 is bound to it by extreme malevolence and the destruction of Habeas Corpus law / rights of Human ; the exact structure of control creating the need for revolution;

    apart from that, thanks for the opportunity.

    • I agree with your point about 9/11 as an important focal point. Maybe the most important, except that I’d say that Gladio Plan B might be even better, and it includes 9/11 as a false flag attack, being used and abused in the ways you described.

      The context of the Gladio B narrative is wider-reaching, including current events, and it avoids, at first contact, the term 9/11 truth, which has been over-saturated and white-washed in the main stream and alt-media. Gladio Plan B, as a focal point, probably could bring in anti-drug war and anti-war activists more easily than 9/11 truth.

      The downsides of Gladio B, if not handled with care, are it’s complexity and wide-reaching contextual narrative. So, it’s not as easy to communicate just what it is, though I’ve heard a couple 3 minute audio clips of Sibel doing a marvelous job, smoothly going from WWII to today in her explanation of what Gladio B is. (Finding and cataloging some of these clips might be worth my time.)

      What are your thoughts about this, remo?

      • listening to http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2015/01/22/the-eyeopener-report-sibel-edmonds-on-gladio-b-xinjiang-operations-paris-shooting-much-more/ conversation ; Gladio b, Xinjiang Georgia…..Graham FULLER/Boston…. So Yeah. I think you are pretty much right; GLADIO can be discussed in polite conversation since Prime minister Andreotti publicly recognised it : legitimised or’‘transformed’ it from ‘probability into certainty’. Bologna proves malevolent intent [mass-casualty] AND false flag, so it is bona-fide and does Segway into 911 if reasoned conversation is up to it. P2OG also examples deviant arrangements by state players utilizing deception – launching secret operations aimed at “stimulating reactions” among ‘terrorists’ [if you’re not with US you are with the terrorist] – prodding them into action and exposing themselves [sic]to “quick-response” attacks by U.S. forces’
        So yes. gladio has less ‘hair-trigger kick-back’ than Free Fall-911, but so far, in conversation, results appear the same. Bewilderment. Incredulity , FEAR. anger; denial . ‘The ‘transformation’ of thinking to allow GLADIO/ GLADIO b into time-line as REAL is exactly the transformation of thinking needed to allow FreeFall Demolition911truth. That may just be me.
        All up, distressing amounts of ‘Learned Helplessness’ [what can I do about it?] all around.

  22. catherine cook says:

    Well I think we all know that the economy is due to collapse very soon whenever the banks think the time is right. While this may provide the incentive for what could grow into a revolution, I tend to agree with ” fatheadjoe”— our source of information is so tightly controlled by the surveillance state that any REAL movement will be immediately co-opted by some corporate/oligarchical force. While there might be a very small percentile of the American population which reads and investigates sources online, they can be manipulated as well or if that fails, then the ol’ Joe Lieberman ” kill switch” for the internet can become a necessity for ” national security reasons”. If the US dollar becomes worthless and people start to scramble to eat, then the waiting police state will become permanently installed. At this point the armed white Bundy Ranch faction may be our only hope against the Orwellian boot stomping on our faces forever. But as these people are also easily manipulated, they will also only end up serving our corporate masters in the end.

  23. fgt4urights says:

    A revolution, or change will never happen with just one particular group. An event, yes, but group, I wouldn’t bet on it. It’s going to be an event or disclosure which wakens the sleeping sheep into realizing the grave danger presented and why it matters and how it effects them. If they don’t think it effects them, then they don’t get active until it does or they are forced to. More people are slowly waking-up to the fact we are a police state and it’s getting worse with it’s abuses and crimes which people are getting sick of.

    More people are waking-up to the surveillance state and when they truly find out what the government is doing, what’s really under the iceberg and it far surpasses the Stassi, they will get it as they still aren’t aware it’s living in their communities, stalking, and invading every aspect of their personal lives. When they find out all the fake jetliners, Cessna’s, helicopters passing over their communities having the ability to look thru their walls at every moment and are attached with stingray’s and dirty boxes, then they will start to get active and be afraid as they will be awake and forced to look at it as they have been deceived. They’ve been fooled and most don’t know this “secret” FACT yet. Cointelpro 2.0 on steroids is in full effect along with police brutality and it’s getting more coverage everyday as their brutality is boundless. People are getting sick of this, especially those who know what’s truly happening, for years.

    People are tired of the drug war, wars in general, and being tired of being lied to over and over by people who know less then themselves. People are sheep and obviously you know it’s the information keeping them this way, that’s why it’s important to get the information out whenever or wherever possible. The information is the game changer on getting the sheep to wake-up. The more people who wake-up and realize the extent of crimes and brutality happening, those people will NEVER go back to the other side or stay asleep to events and crimes that effect them. I think there are more people now who despise both parties, politicians, and government in general then yesterday and it’s growing. The more Obama speaks the more he helps this cause and forget about the Republicans as they are worse. More people getting tired of both though and realize there’s other forces at play controlling their so called “free” lives.

    It’s going to be an event though which is going to set off a lot of already pissed off people for various reasons waiting and knowing the sinister crimes/injustice happening at every level. If I had to pick just one group, we could probably start here as this is the home of the irate so I’m sure there’s no shortage of pissed off people… or you can go to infowars as there’s definitely no shortage of all kinds of pissed off people from every walk of life and background on that site….

  24. steven hobbs says:

    Thank you Sibel.

    Here, in the spirit of your invitation, I’ll be bouncing comments off clips [in quotations] from BFP community, and riff along interesting themes.

    “REVOLUTION. What does that mean to you in the context of this discussion? It could be seen as an apocalypse in the sense of the Greek meaning of the word – a lifting of the veil. I see people noticing when something happens that lifts the veil of the shadows – and we get a glimpse of what is going on with the puppeteers.”

    Central to finding answers is framing of questions, which may take several go a rounds, and investigations. Hitler’s was a revolution, Kuhn suggests revolutions in science which has elevated “paradigms” to almost meaninglessness. Russian revolution, perhaps like Iran was, “say hello to the new boss just like the old.” We are presently having a revolution in social media, after one in technology, and knowledge. Revolution has already happened — we lost. But, don’t chase that one, there’s another coming around the corner any moment. Actually it is happening NOW… you must feel it too.

    “Fall of the Berlin wall, that even up to a few hours before people started tearing it down, nobody could have predicted it… a tipping point must be reached in the conscientiousness of a great majority of the people, a point where life as it currently is no longer seems worth living. I think we are close to such a moment in the western world” Things can unravel and change with great immediacy. Sometimes the powers that be may not know how to control things so they throw in more chaos, expecting to come out OK in the end. There is a feeling in the air. And, you can’t stop an idea.

    “All kinds of massive financial bubbles and one of which can explode at any moment. 2015 really does look like the year of a major collapse. I do not believe you are going to see a revolution before that happens. ”

    “Shock and necessity often require different thinking, some recognize the moment is now already.”
    While both statements are true, many people on the street know their government is mendacious.

    “A sizable number of people have adopted the outlook and practice of Anarchism and Revolutionary Socialism. Economic equality has become a rallying point” Yes. The old paradigms are failing people and they know it, but they don’t know where to jump to next because the situation is so fluid and they are used to having leaders who tell them what to think.

    “First revolution starts in London …Sectarian Nationalism in UK as the Irish Scottish and Welsh move away from the gravitational cehtre of London… Increase in mental health problems….emergence of an immersive digital counterculture that moves people away from activism and into the world of interactive virtual three dimensional lived spaces that act as pacificatory zones” The EU is a guide for possible expression by US citizens of disgust. The rest of the world is too.

    “Karl Marx exists only as a bogeyman in this country, and Hegel is inconceivable” These things may be changing but it will take a little bit of window dressing to make the aesthetic palatable to those with mundane education.

    “Public informing themselves is and will be necessary for revolution and eternal vigilance for liberty and justice for all” Yep, many seem to be seeking, some will find BFP, and other worthy sources.

    “There has been successful “consciousness raising” as far as ideas on sexuality, gender, and race, but not put into an international context that challenges DC” These are starting to come together for the thoughtful. Look at how Ferguson activists sought training in the Gaza.

    /////

    “synthetic revolution/change” is a function of state psy-control.. what other was Obummer’s “HOPE”? Expect it to get way more subtle than Alex Jones.

    “It will almost certainly be initiated by a scripted destabilizing event, or series of same, and the course of the revolution will proceed along the lines of a scripted narrative” Divide and conquer is tried and true. Add a little xenophobia, nationalism, jingoism, and sexy weapons and you’ve a wining recipe.

    “libertarian right. The primary reason I feel that way is because they seem to be the only political sector that possesses both philosophical principles as well as the courage of their convictions. That they’re organized, tend to be military veterans, and have guns tends to persuade me of their potential.” This group is not to be ignored. Sections within it are highly manipulable, but not all.

    ///
    The revolution I desire will require diversity of tactics, multiplicity of fronts, unification of purposes (however desperate), patience, good will, love, and whole lot of ingenuity and cunning, and sometimes wrathful compassion. Most vital in my eyes is to make the present state apparatus — and it’s formulation — irrelevant.

  25. Harlyn Rohr says:

    The revolution in the USA is an ongoing process that has been repeatedly coopted thru it’s relatively short but eventful history . That revolutionary process never ends and it shouldn’t . Aware American’s are furious with the lack of leadership and integrity that has devolved into this cultural and economic debacle . Rule of law has been replaced by rule of greed . That said , Americans have only to go back to the civil war and Abraham Lincolns assassination to see how their individual freedom was then coopted by British and American Banking interests making us all the SLAVES of the resulting FIAT CURRENCY CORPORATION ! The answer to your question Sibel is , the sheer size of the continental USA like that of Russia and it’s respective resources including the natural intelligence of it’s people precludes the abrogation of our inherent freedoms once understood ! You don’t have long to wait . Thank you for the chance to comment , Harlyn Rohr

  26. John Phillips says:

    Hi Sibel and Everyone

    “Where will the revolution come from?” Good question. I’m not so certain that those in power aren’t surprised that revolution hasn’t broken out. Between blatant theft from the financial sector, total ownership of our government by international corporations and financial institutions, torture of prisoners of war, the actions of our police forces and fueling of the racial divide. The most important of all…the US “religious” war against Islam…I suspect that “they” are wondering why we have not gone over the edge.

    Why not…
    Religion: The majority of the citizens of the US are “Christian” to some degree, or of one of the other major religions (Judaism and Islam). When you “believe” you will tend to believe anything. Thus most in the US “believe” what they are told on CNN, Fox News and support what our government does.

    Socio/Economic: Most people are working hard to make a living! Millions with low paying multiple jobs, others just trying to hang on to what they have, and then the wealthy who are very comfortable. Those that are hurt most don’t have the time, energy or resources to revolt..until they lose what they have. Someone said….when people have nothing to lose…they lose it! Right now the needy have basically what they need; an apartment, job and/or food stamps, transportation.

    Most in the US are duped into thinking we have it pretty good.

    Education: Most in the US have a poor education when it comes to Civics, history, geography, economics and critical thinking. Most pretty much accept what FOX and CNN tell them to think without much though or questioning.

    Those that have a good education either are doing well and comfortable or too busy trying to hang on to what they have.

    I fear that most in the US are comfortable with paying children slave wages in sweat shops or killing people on the other side of the planet so they have a comfy lifestyle and can shop at Wally World. “Torture? As long it’s not me!”

    Where will the Revolt come from?
    Well, as I said, when people have nothing to lose they lose it. So, a financial crash that takes food stamps away…that will do it. A failure of the electrical grid maybe, another killing of some poor black kid, possibly!

    But the danger will come from the extreme religious sects (Christian and Islam)…the foundation of many anti-government groups. Any religious extremist is extraordinarily dangerous and can justify anything while preaching hatred! They’ll have us killing each other….our government is expert at divide and conquer.

    However; the most likely scenario will be No Revolt as the US continues to slowly fall into decay while the water slowly comes to boil!

    Now to catchup with everone else’s input.
    This is an excellent idea.
    Best Regards
    John

  27. Hi all,
    I choose: Religious Right,

    mostly because I can imagine what it would look like afterwards because of Margaret Atwood’s novel “The Handmaid’s Tale”. In movie form here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMfsJIvYO3s .
    Probably not a particularly convincing argument, but I have some backup arguments..: Since everybody is used to the hierarchical structures to the point of apparent dependency, I think anarchism would require evolution rather than revolution.
    Second backup: My impression is that the religious right brings a zeal to the game that others don’t have. They act with purpose and unison is my impression, which believe helps in such a cause as a revolution.

    • I see I answered the wrong question (who has power after a revolution), rather than the one asked (what triggers it). If forced to bet, I’d bet it would start with police killing multiple unarmed black people in one go, a school class or something. An uprising ensues, reactionary forces play out their moves.

  28. 2oth Century history has shown that most ofter political/social revolutions end up being controlled by deeply committed zealots…Russia, China, Iran. The other type I’ve witnessed are what I call phony revolutions: where the ruling oligarchy simply installs new handpuppets and things continue largely as before…Philippines, Romania, Brazil.

    My fear is that the most committed zealots in the US are the extreme right. For thirty years now hate radio has been vilifying decency, fairness, compassion, concern for the environment, each other. For twenty years Fox News has done the same in an even more potent and persuasive medium. During that time I have lived in the most ‘liberal’ area of the country – all those outlets have been available but no countervailing ones.

    I’d also like to note that the catalyst for major change could be something like a devastating earthquake on the west coast. Groups prepared to step in and take advantage of a fluid situation could easily prevail. Those who are already armed and prepared to do whatever is necessary to ‘fix’ the nation.

  29. steven hobbs says:

    Here’s a timely article on issued raised here; “The New “Oppressed People’s Movement”: Can the Tide of Resistance Continue?”
    http://truth-out.org/news/item/28688-the-new-oppressed-peoples-movement-can-the-tide-of-resistance-continue

  30. I would like to ask a ?..
    Living in another land.(Denmark).
    2016 is not far away..hmm.(election)..
    And
    A word goes in my mind.
    Lame Duck…!
    just how will this situation change the political
    landscape of USA..!
    Kind Regards
    Jens.

  31. “The revolution will not be televised,” unless the establishment is surreptitiously leading it. The establishment owns media because they understand the power of propaganda. The establishment encourages and abides ignorance in the populace because knowledge is power. The establishment creates and controls institutions because institutional inertia wears down resistance. The establishment monopolizes force because coercion is required to maintain privileges and operate rackets. The establishment worships money because money enables and maintains all these other desires.

    If the above observations are correct then we must turn to questions of human nature. Are we upset at this power arrangement and predicament… or jealous? An honest answer is required here lest we toss out the Tsar and wave in the Bolsheviks. Whatever we’re aiming for needs to account for both human frailties when entertaining power, and human aspirations lest the soul be crushed. A real education assists each individual in developing “a working theory of human nature.” I believe that Gatto nailed it with that quote, that real consciousness is required for each person to wake up to the reality of the human condition. In America, the propagandized “American Exceptionalism” is the real national religion – and the real curse, for us and the world. Sibel touches this when she advises one to lose the “black hats vs. white hats” mentality. I was upset and depressed like most of us were when I figured out that 9/11 was a lie – a constructed event, though distant. I was actually even more upset upon hearing John Taylor Gatto’s critique of our school system to which I had been subjected, and realized that there were people who had spent more time thinking about my life than I had, and their motives were highly suspect!

    Old joke: What’s the difference between Capitalism and Communism? Under Capitalism, man exploits man, but under Communism it’s the other way around.

    The “revolution” is going to require much more mature and nuanced thinking than false either/or choices.

    • CuChulainn says:

      that is an old joke; confounding the system of state capitalism of the soviet union, china, n. korea etc. w. communism has been one of the most effective capitalist tropes

  32. Dave Short says:

    @Sibel:
    Your account of the 1979 revolution in Iran was fascinating and very enlightening. I would like to hear more about these types of personal experiences. I’m also very interested in the effect that the Iraq/Iran war had on the country. You mentioned that it had a unifying effect against a common enemy, would you kindly relate more specifics about that war in some future episode please?

    What were the economic/psychological/Religious ramifications? How did it effect the power structure in post Shah Iran? Were the Iranian people able to see the war as an extension of US Hegemony via Iraq? What’s it like being that close to a serious shooting war in a country that’s been peaceful for so long? What were the effects of the Scud missile attacks on Tehran etc. ? How was war “hysteria” used by the leaders for propaganda purposes?

    OK to your specific questions at the end of the podcast:

    Economy: Economics as a splintering factor rather than any sort of a unifying one.

    When/if there is a really catastrophic economic event, either real or contrived or as a part of economic warfare by say Russia or China against the US dollar; I believe that people in America will by in large go into survival mode and will be too busy scrounging food and security and dealing with the shock to do anything organized, especially at first. Crime as a means of survival and the worst aspects of anarchy will be the early effects when people can’t get enough food (OR medication). I think it’ll look a lot like New Orleans after Katrina all across the USA in the metropolitan areas. I suspect that FEMA and Military/Police units will be brought in to kettle entire cities and let them burn out for a month or so, while people who are willing to cooperate will line up to get on the buses to the FEMA relocation centers. That is certainly the way that mass policing maneuvers are shaping up in my view. Once the metropolitan centers are either disabled or under control, there will be more incursions into the country.

    If there is armed resistance, the rural areas are where I see it happening. In rural areas are larger concentrations of weaponry, some stockpiles of food and ammunition, more fundamental Christians, bigger militia groups with more serious training, some plans and more defensible spaces. I expect to see some serious brushfire revolutions throughout the USA in the wilder areas of the country. It will take on aspects of civil war when the propagandized people start to take sides against their own families and friends and the Stasi system will be implemented through them. Lots of frogs trying to climb out of the pot on top of each other’s heads. Grim, but that’s how I see that issue.

    “Simmering”:
    One place that Iran had a big advantage over us in America is (Correct me if I’m wrong here please) I doubt that there was a water fluoridation program and it was before the advent of SSRI type psychologically blunting drugs. Now as planned and confirmed by the CDC, over 70% of Americans are drinking, bathing in, washing their food with and watering their gardens with fluoridated water, and there’s really no knowing how the fluoride taps are being regulated or what the so called Fluoride actually contains and it’s a very persistent neurotoxin. In addition, about 20% of Americans are taking anti-depressant/mood altering drugs. So, given the evidence that Fluoridation decreases “Boiling” behavior, it looks like the powers that be can continue to turn up the heat without much danger of having a mass of frogs jumping out of the pot and organizing against them in any meaningful way.

    Then of course, we’re up against the massive propaganda and disinformation apparatus which is teamed up with Gladio type patsy operations to keep turning the heat up while stirring the pot rapidly and keeping the frogs going around in circles so even if they want to jump out, they’re too dizzy to find their way out of the pot.

    Perhaps this is why it does seem as if the “Simmering weight is going down” as you say. This speaks to the desensitization of the American population. It’s frustrating.

    And, regarding “immunization” even though I know it’s not exactly what you meant, the evidence that the medical profession exists primarily to support itself by creating disease, treating symptoms and pushing useless-harmful treatments like vaccines is making the population physically ill. We’re being preyed upon by a predatory “Medical care” industry. Sick people make poor revolutionaries in my opinion.

    Uniting for a major change aka revolution:
    Not on any kind of a nation wide scale, no. The United States is a huge and diverse land mass and also the population is segregated, segmented and without any focusing point (Except perhaps 911 I keep hoping) that would cause everyone to grab up pitch forks and torches and storm Washington DC, the Pentagon, the FED and the homes of the various ruling elites. Until such a time as they do actually start mass raiding of homes for activists or weaponry or dissent, it doesn’t look like there’s any flash point to rally around.

    And people are frightened I think. Those of us who are old enough to remember reading 1984 and Brave New World and Animal Farm in school are shaking our heads in slack jawed amazement at the police state tactics and the brutality that we’re seeing against people who are no threat. (People in wheel chairs, homeless, children in schools, veterans, etc..) Police training is to shoot first and don’t even bother to ask questions later. The courts are backing them up on this. Even the more militant people of which there are many groups-like the organized militias are reluctant to open fire because to do so is playing into the hands of those who WANT a reason to demonize “The people” and clamp down even harder ala Waco and the subsequent Oklahoma City Bombing (False flag).

    I’m afraid this all sounds very negative but all I can say is on the bright side, people who are studying these things ARE getting smarter and better informed and we all have families. American people are prepping to survive some sort of horrendous event, but I don’t see it resulting in a massive uprising like Iran barring some perceived outside enemy that has a unifying effect.

    If there’s a huge revolution I see it happening somewhere else and hopefully spreading globally. I’d be interested in your take on likely flash point countries and triggering events.

    I guess I didn’t realize that I was feeling so pessimistic until I started setting these thoughts down in the format you proposed.

    peace
    d

    • steven hobbs says:

      Hi Dave, check out videos (and live streaming) of occupy, and other uprisings, revolutionary, militant actions, flash mobs, uploads of police violence, etc. Seems our revolution is being televised in US, and elsewhere.
      Two revolutionary dialogues from Canada and Australia:
      http://www.submedia.tv/stimulator/2014/03/10/food-fight/
      enjoy a humorous comment :
      https://thejuicemedia.com/some-thoughts-on-rn30-the-new-world-order-with-giordano/

    • Dave, you and Peter M and others on this page have really nailed it. The US is an intellectual and spiritual wasteland, and it’s no accident. I was consciously aware of what was being done to me in the US public school system during the 1960’s, as were at least some of my classmates. Some of them decided that since it was all a farce they might as well “drop out” from societal norms. I lost friends to drug overdoses. My form of rebellion was to spend hours in libraries giving myself an alternative education while being too cautious to actually check out any “suspicious” books on my library card. In this digital age how many remember the ancient concern of being profiled by virtue of which library books you checked out?

      “The revolution will not be televised.” Perhaps it’s no sheer coincidence they call TV fare “programming”. I don’t need to expound on that, not on this page with these readers.

      I’m aware of my own intellectual limitations and the gaping holes in my education, now more than ever. I’ve spent the better part of a half century mostly making a living and being a slave to home ownership and the pursuit of financial security which I intended to pass on to loved ones. But alas, the loves of my life all departed in one manner or another, and here I remain. It is said when we make plans, God laughs. So I don’t make plans so much now, but at least I have more opportunity to think.

      The hope has been expressed the truth about 9/11 will knock out a keystone in the wall of deceit. How do we know the structure of lies has not already fallen into ruin, but we just didn’t learn about it on the “news” or the Internet? Do we really know how pervasive and successful full spectrum dominance has been, and for how long?

      Perhaps it’s not so much a question of when and where the truth emerges, but rather, will most people even notice? How much do even we REALLY want to know? Once you know something, it’s in there forever, like it or not. If it’s corrosive knowledge, how do you internalize it? Do you encase it in scar tissue and put it in your mental cellar, so to speak, or let it eat away at you until fall into a pit of drugs/ despair/ insanity? Perhaps you cope by stepping back and deciding this world is virtual and ephemeral, not to be taken too seriously. That’s pretty much what I’ve done.

      From me you can expect many things including my best attempt at intellectual honesty – but not burning passion for this or that political cause. I simply cannot be passionate about such causes in this world because I don’t believe much of anything here is authentic except our unconditional love for each other, and the love of God. On that note feel free to drop me into whichever of your classification cubbyholes gives you the least discomfort.

      When we say or think we need to raise awareness and wake our countrymen from their stupor to help lay a foundation for a glorious revolution, I would suggest we examine our motives and actions from a starting point of love, rather than seeking vindication for our views. The right thing at the wrong time, is in fact the wrong thing.

      Would we rather have a spur-of-the-moment bloody revolution in our lifetimes which will likely be co-opted, or be content to prepare the ground and plant seeds? Each new generation can be a revolution, if their parents and others care enough about them to get their minds and souls out of the belly of the beast so many of us were trapped in during our education. The most revolutionary thing I could imagine happening in my lifetime is the end of letting the government raise and teach our children.

      My answer in a nutshell as to where the revolution we really need can possibly spring from: Teach your children well.

  33. Thomas Wonsetler says:

    Sibel ! I watched your latest video with James Corbett recently. It was great ! I was so inspired ! I love your defiance of the idiots who just waste time saying stupid childish nonsense. I was disgusted by some of the comments on YouTube and they pissed me off so I adamantly defended you ! But I realized its a waste of time arguing with childish idiots, especially when they dont even know you like we do. It made me feel really good when you said you dont care if people like you or not, or think your a great speaker or not, or think your beautiful or butt ugly. Lol ! I love your defiance and your so funny ! Your definitely one of my favorite people ever ! Your a warm, loving, caring, giving person whos brilliant and funny and very charming ! And im very thankful for your presence amongst us ! You really inspire me and obviously many others ! Thank you for all you give to the world and thank you for this new podcast ! Its so great ! And just what we need ! Thank you for the truth beauty goodness love humor and joy you shine into the world ! Tom

    • Hi Thomas, Thank you for your encouraging words. I believe this is the main reason many good people don’t bother commenting/adding their voices in those types of forums. Which frankly defeats the purpose. And this is why I love where we are here @ BFP.
      The other thing: I am an opponent of rehearsed, written and prepared speeches. Usually, they end up being kind of monotonous; not spontaneous/frank and natural.
      The most amazing thing about our forum here @ BFP: having vastly different political philosophies and views, yet, being able to engage in constructive criticism and discussions. Here we have hard-core Libertarians, Liberals, conservative, religious groups. We have members from US, UK, Denmark, Poland, Switzerland, Turkey, Lebanon, Holland … these are the ones I have been able to identify so far, I’m sure we have other nationalities as well.

    • Dave Short says:

      Huzzah Thomas!

  34. I believe that the initial spark could come from some high-level government insider who gets fed up with the corruption and deceit and spills the beans about 9/11. It’s an unlikely scenario, I’ll admit, but if done dramatically enough it could have immediate and tremendous repercussions There must be many individuals within the government who find the current dispensation intolerable, and who might eventually speak out after retiring. There is no telling what course events might subsequently take, but it’s certainly interesting to think about.

  35. good analysis, i agree with a lot of this. rightists/constitutionalists/patriots will surely be dupes that none of the people they are actually fighting for to keep control will give two red cents for and then run right over them, indeed. and i don’t think the powers that shouldn’t be will be able to maintain it after that happens, but to ensure that doesn’t happen there will definitely need to be a push from the radical side to allow people not aligned with anything in particular to determine their lives for themselves. i think people committed to that sort of change have to realize that landscape and be prepared.

    this whole comments section is really great. has definitely gotten my mind going in different directions with the brainstorming going on!

  36. and i wanted to add that yes, the oppressed majority outside of the make believe, disney-fied bubble is fed up.

  37. Mrs. Edmonds,
    (You know from which country I am writing from).

    I fear the coming revolution in the US will come from the “Security Establishment”. (CIA, NSA, FBI). Mr. Peter B. Collins has talked about that many a times. Someone who has a good grasp on what’s going in the US is one Mr. Gareth Porter. He talked many times about how the “Security Establishment” and its interests. Just look at what happened when the Soviet collapsed.in 1990. Then we had an attempted coupe in 1991.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_coup_d'%C3%A9tat_attempt

    Perhaps you can ask Mr. Gareth Porter to speak on one of the “Probable Cause” or “Boiling Frog” podcasts ?
    http://www.ipsnews.net/

    • Thank you for sharing your take here, Willy 2. My questions: don’t they already have what They want? Haven’t they taken over? Aren’t we a national security state? Their ‘revolution’ with 9/11 has gotten them exactly that: a national security state (A Police State) where they rule answerable to no one. No?

      • steven hobbs says:

        Thank you, Sibel for a refreshing conversation.

        Allow a reconsideration of the question: “Where will the revolution in the US come from?”
        Typical meaning is “repudiation and replacement of a governmental system.” In sociology, “a sudden and societal change accompanied by violence,” distinct from “social evolution.” The simple answer of who can bring this kind of noun into existence is “the people.” But, which people; from where?

        Our usual notions of “revolution” are inadequate. Usual examples are historical narratives looking backwards claiming arbitrary time frames. Things take time AND organization; there are clear steps. Only 2/10 violent “revolutions” are successful, 8/10 non-violent revolutions are successful. Success is measured by sustained change. Most violent revolutions do not succeed but strengthen the state (worthy consideration regarding synthetic revolution). Take a look at Egypt, a contemporary example of the former, and Iceland for a recent (mild) example of the latter. The US state has monopoly on violence.
        When we think of revolution as sudden, we forget backstory of dedication, organizing, grueling, challenging, committed work over years behind the scenes to undermine authority and relevance of the state — as it is known — and for what it does. Threat of Black Panthers was when they organized food drives and local medical care as much as when they carried guns to the state capitol, like Zapatistas. Think food sovereignty and agroecology, and Food Not Bombs. It is time to replace the state as we know it. Only by withdrawing from feeding the state beast with our indulgences will it die. Only by joining together to no longer depend on the state will it whither. This is no easy project I think to myself as I sit in a comfortable abode down the street from an upscale market.

        There is much foment underneath, uprisings and rebellion above: Black Lives Matter, Ecological, Indigenous, hacker rebels, worker rebellions, and people forming activist communities joining with international bodies. We are witnessing a great turning, a social tide. A historian will write a revolution in consciousness started (fill in some arbitrary point) and ended with a (arbitrary point of) physical transformation. If anyone is left to read the story.

        I’m suggesting we move away from externalizing “revolution” from… those people… over there eventually making a change.

        She is US. If not us, then who. If not now, then when?

        Expect gradual and evolutionary, in addition to revolutionary. I expect multiple flashpoints. Starts first with a change of consciousness and then behavior. A flashpoint, a precipitation, where fear is lost. I won’t place my bet. It can’t be predicted, nor intentionally generated. It’s spontaneous. If the background organizational structure is not there, the uprising will fail, the flame wither. This is the reason, IMHO, to act now. Multiplicity of tactics, unification of purposes will help us get sustained change with our neighbors and new sense of the commons. The unorganized and uninformed will need leaders, the state will fail them — or worse.
        We travel together by speaking to those around us, gently prodding truth, and refusing to succumb to the beckoning of cinematic hallucination — all the while organizing together.

        Peace/Revolution

      • Yes, the “Security Establishment” (SE) has everything they want. And Congress & the White House are (very) afraid of what the SE have stored in their “archives”. Yes, 9/11 was certainly a big boost for their budgets (Mr. Bill Binney talked about a “Feeding Frenzy”).

        One has to keep in mind that the SE is funded by the US taxpayer. And that is the achilles heel of the SE. Just look at what happened in the Soviet Union. They spent billions, billions & billions on the army & the intelligence agencies. Did that prevent the collapse of the Soviet Union ?

        And that attempted coupe in Russia in 1991 was AFTER (!!!!) the Soviet Union folded.

        It will be the US consumer that will put the “kibash” on the SE. Here’s how it will work. The US is living beyond it means. That is signalled by the US federal budget deficit and the Current Account Deficit (CAD). The most dangerous thing is the CAD, currently at ~ $ 400 to $ 450 billion. It means that foreigners are subsidizing the US to the tune of that same amount. Somewhere in the future the US consumer will (dramatically) reduce its consumption (think e.g. rising interest rates) and as a result that CAD will shrink down to zero. The CAD at zero means that the US government – for the first time in (at least) 3 decades – must pay the full 100% of the bill of the SE and all those military “adventures” abroad. Then the US govt will be forced to cut spending by say 20, 30, 50 % or even more across the board. Then you can bet your bottom dollar that the SE will overthrow the govt in an attempt to save their budgets.

        Any one who has knowledge of international money flows can tell/confirm that the foreign wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.) of e.g. the Bush (& Obama) administration has helped to add EXTRA fuel to the US housing bubble (1995 – 2006).

        A person who is VERY critical of US economic policies & has knowledge of international money flows is Mr. Michael Hudson.
        http://michael-hudson.com/
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv6kEd9C9CM
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hudson_(economist)

        Ask Mr. Hudson to be a guest on the Peter B Collins or the Boiling Frogs show.

      • Mrs. Edmonds,

        I DO hope there won’t be an overthrow of the US govt but given the vast size of the “Military Industrial Congressional Complex” I would be surprised to see there won’t come a overthrow of the US government and a general becoming the president of the US. Just imagine a crazy US military dictator, like one Mr. A. Hitler. But Mr. Hitler didn’t have A-bombs (6000 US nuclear warheads ???), H-bombs, aircraft carriers, a military budget of ~ $ 700 billion, etc. That would be the utmost danger for (the relative) peace in the world of today.

        Like the muslim jihadis want to conquer the world with the sword in the one hand and the Koran in the other hand, there’re christians in the US army who want to conquer the world with the sword in one hand and the Bible in the other hand. This group is called the “Christian Dominionists”.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology.

        It’s essentially the christian version of the muslim fundamentalists.

        http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/02/1096273/-Why-We-Fight-Christian-Dominionists-Are-Dead-Serious-About-Overthrowing-Democracy
        http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/mrff-media-coverage-compilation/
        http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/media-events/
        http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/

        Follow the weblinks !!!!!

        Perhaps these links are a good source for one or more podcasts (with e.g. Mr. Peter B. Collins) ???

  38. How did Iran arrive at this point [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyYWy4yIAt4]?
    1979 was not a revolution, but a further swing to the right, away from liberal (libertarian) institutions and definitely broke down the separation of religion and state.
    The true revolution will be a worldwide evolution [ahmadiyyamalta.org/2014/09/10/evolution-not-revolution/].
    We have to resume the cause of Mossadegh! There was a true liberal evolution in the world. Let’s pick up where humanity left off!

    History of Persian Rule:

    1785 – 1925 – Qajar Dynasty reigns Persia
    1848 – 1896 – Nasser al-Din Shah Qajar (assassinated)
    1896 – 1907 – Mozaffar ad-Din Shah Qajar – Fifth king of Persia.

    [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozaffar_ad-Din_Shah_Qajar#Biography]
    “(Mozaffar al-Din Shah) borrowed money from Nicholas II of Russia to pay for his extravagant traveling expenses.” “Mozzafar ad-din Shah was forced to sign many concessions, providing foreigners with monopolistic control of various Persian industries and markets. One example being the D’Arcy Oil Concession.”

    1901 – “William Knox D’Arcy, a millionaire London socialite negotiates an oil concession with Mozaffar al-Din Shah Qajar of Persia. He assumed exclusive rights to prospect for oil for 60 years in a vast tract of territory including most of Iran. In exchange the Shah received £20,000 (£1.9 million today), an equal amount in shares of D’Arcy’s company, and a promise of 16% of future profits.… After several years of prospecting, D’Arcy’s fortune dwindled away and he was forced to sell most of his rights to a Glasgow-based syndicate, the Burmah Oil Company.”

    1905 – 1907 – Persian Constitutional Revolution
    1907 – 1909 – Mohammad Ali Shah Qajar dissolves parliament and abolishes constitution.

    1909-04-14 – Burmah Oil created the Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC) as a subsidiary and also sold shares to the public.

    1909-07- Pro-constitution forces depose Mohammad Ali Shah Qajar & place his son Ahmad Shah in power.

    1909-07-16 – 1925 – Ahmad Shāh Qājār

    1909 – 1919 – The “Political disorder” and “Social chaos” in result of interference and military adventure of “Wassmuss of Persia” (Wilhelm Wassmuss) in natural process of “Persian Peaceful Constitutional Revolution” and against “Iranian-Britain-Russian neutral Axis” costs lives of up to 8 to 9 million Iranian (25% to 50% of Iranian Population), known as “The Great Famine & Genocide in Iran” or first “Iranian Holocaust” and life of 1.5 million Armenian Known as Armenian Genocide (Armenian Holocaust).

    1913 – “shortly before World War I, APOC managers negotiated with a new customer, Winston Churchill, who was then First Lord of the Admiralty.…Furthermore, Churchill wanted to free Britain from its reliance on the Standard Oil and Royal Dutch-Shell oil companies.…acquired a controlling interest in APOC. The contract that was set up between the British Government and APOC was to hold for 20 years. The British government also became a de facto hidden power behind the oil company.”

    1914 – 1921 – Jungle Movement – Rebellion against Qajar Monarchy – Led by Mirzâ Kuçak Xân who proclaims, “My purpose and that of my friends is the independence of the state and the reforming and strengthening of the central government.” “How sad that Iranians are supportive of the dead (mordeh-parast) and still do not realize the value of this movement. Of course they will come to realize after we are gone: who we were, what we wanted to achieve, and what we did.”

    1921-02-21 – Ahmad Shah goes into exile as a result of coup (treason) by his Minister of War and commander of the Cossack garrison, Colonel Reza Khan, who subsequently seized the post of Prime Minister.

    1923 – From exile Ahmad Shah states, “At this tragic moment when the future of my country is at risk, all my thoughts are with my people, to whom I address this declaration: The coup d’état just committed by Reza Khan against the constitution and my dynasty, was committed through the force of bayonets. It contravenes the most sacred laws and fatally leads my people into great calamities and undeserved sufferance. I strongly raise my voice in protest against this coup d’état. Now and in the future, I consider null and void all acts emanating from such a government and committed under its rule. I am and remain the legitimate and constitutional sovereign of Persia, and I await the hour of my return to my country to continue serving my people.”

    1925 – 1941 Colonel Reza Khan proclaimed Reza Shah Pahlavi by the “founder’s assembly.”

    1931 – “APOC informed the Iranian government that its royalties for the year would amount to a mere £366,782 while in the same period the company’s income taxes paid to the British Government amounted to approximately £1,000,000.”

    1941-08-25 – 09-17 – Ango-Soviet occupation, allied powers accuse “neutral” Reza Shah of selling oil to axis/fascist/nazi powers (japan/italy/germany)

    1941-09-16 – Reza Shah’s son Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi takes over as his father abdicates the throne.

    1951-04-28 – Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi appoints Mohammad Mossadegh as Prime Minister.

    1951-05-01 – Mosaddegh nationalized the AIOC, cancelling its oil concession (expired in 1993) and expropriating its assets.
    1951-06-21 – Mossadegh, “Our long years of negotiations with foreign countries…have yielded no results thus far. With the oil revenues we could meet our entire budget and combat poverty, disease, and backwardness among our people. Another important consideration is that by the elimination of the power of the British company, we would also eliminate corruption and intrigue, by means of which the internal affairs of our country have been influenced. Once this tutelage has ceased, Iran will have achieved its economic and political independence. The Iranian state prefers to take over the production of petroleum itself. The company should do nothing else but return its property to the rightful owners. The nationalization law provide that 25% of the net profits on oil be set aside to meet all thelegitimate claims of the company for compensation. It has been asserted abroad that Iran intends to expel the foreign oil experts from the country and then shut down oil installations. Not only is this allegation absurd; it is utter invention.”

    1950s – Under the guidance of C.M. Woodhouse, chief of the British intelligence station in Tehran, Britain’s covert operations network had funneled roughly £10,000 per month to the Rashidian brothers (two of Iran’s most influential royalists) in the hope of buying off, according to CIA estimates, “the armed forces, the Majlis (Iranian parliament), religious leaders, the press, street gangs, politicians and other influential figures”.[36] Thus, in his statement asserting electoral manipulation by “foreign agents”, Mosaddegh suspended the elections.

    1953 – Operationg Ajax – Joint MI6 CIA coup overthrows Mossaddegh [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat]

    1979-02-11 – Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi overthrown by Islamic revolution

  39. Richard Walton says:

    I do not have a clue who will actually start the revolution but Id guess It will either have to occur when the economy completely collapses or some type of new 9-11 happens. In both scenarios I think the now somewhat covert police state will rise and become completely overt and that is when all of us will come together and rise up. I do not know which particular group will lead it but I think it will have to be younger people…I don’t even know at this point if the majority of the older generations can break free from what they have believed their entire lives…that the establishment is trustworthy and gives a damn about them.

    I hope there is not too much fighting between so-called patriots and the revolutionary forces. That will only complicate matters.

  40. Revolution should be coming from the people. But they are so dumbed down, drugged out, completely compromised from every possible angle it makes it highly unlikely anything productive will come from them. They will get mad and revolt when the financial system does it’s swan dive and this is exactly what the police state is anticipating and gearing up for.

    Terrorists are not required when the USA has it’s so called gov. They are digging their own hole and it’s getting bigger and bigger and eventually they are going to fall in it by their own hand. So called “terrorists” are not required thank you very much. The gov. is doing a perfectly fine job of collapsing the system on their own. The big question is after collapse, what comes next? If it’s a reset of the system and the same people are in charge through their puppets, that will be the worst possible outcome.

    The revolution has to come individually. Just like the commercial says “just say no”. No to whatever it is they want you to do. When you do that the real revolution has begun whether you know it or not.

    • ‘Revolution should come individually …’- I do agree. However, so far, it’s been so minute. Let me give you an example: I travel a lot. I always, 100%, Opt Out from the TSA X-Ray machine. 4 years ago, I’d witness a handful who’d raised their hand, and say ‘Opting out here.’ In the last two years I have seen ‘zero.’ I am always the only ‘crazy’ Opt Out gal among 1000s in the line. This is what I mean by seeing the simmering level going down instead of up. Desensitization? Immunization? And with both: escalation of police state practices.

      Another example: Common Core currently has this ‘Opt Out’ clause. Guess what? So many parents I speak with express their dismay (in talk only) and say they are concerned. But, when it comes to sticking with the ‘Opt Out’ clause, a very minute minority actually does it. Why?

      Another example: NSA scandal. After the initial outcry, gradually, the entire topic is kind of disappearing. It is becoming another ‘fact of life.’

      That’s the dilemma I keep going back to. Looking at all the psychological factors, possible sociological explanations, historical precedence … and trying to figure out of way that gets us out of this rot!!

      • dreamtime says:

        When I go through the TSA checkpoint I always opt-out too. Most people go through it and raise their hands and it’s unbelievable. I think it’s a death chamber and radiating people for Eugenic purposes. It definitely has nothing to do with security.

        This last trip where I opted out they had me wait for almost 25 minutes until someone came for me. Meanwhile, I caused a commotion there while I waited. Never let a “crisis” go to waste 🙂 I have no fear of these people at all.

        They let a mom and a child go through the metal detector right in front of me so I asked why I can’t go through that too. No answer because they have no minds at all! I basically bantered the TSA workers constantly until someone came to give me the TSA rubdown while they check for nothing. That’s 25 minutes of me constantly bantering them as they are trying to process the slaves. Can you imagine? People were looking at me like I’m from another planet 🙂

        It’s like a three stooges movie with these TSA workers. People think they are there for security? Is there anything more laughable? These workers are the offspring of the three stooges. Mo, Larry and Curley. Any real terrorist event will bypass the TSA checkpoints like they don’t exist. It’s all theatre for the slaves.

      • dreamtime says:

        I don’t think there is a way to avoid what’s coming. It’s too late in the game. The country is going to go right through the storm whether they want to or not. The American way of life is going bye bye no matter how you look at it. The question is what will come in it’s place? That’s what I’m real curious about. If it’s a new system run by the same unconsciousness and their puppets that will be a terrible outcome.

      • steven hobbs says:

        With great respect, and wishing most pertinent entries, people at the TSA scan who appear sheeple are individual. Their degree of disgust of a required TSA genuflect isn’t necessarily measured by their expedient submission. Their personal bravery is not necessarily measured thus either. Many of the responses to this query have been about others doing revolution. What about the revolution in our midst? Do we not got a dog in this fight? Does this present and ongoing revolution require us (me too) to get out of our comfort zone of observational pontification? When is this present revolution embraced as personal, individual, about family, community, and the commons? To add some outside thoughts, Theorist Bill Moyer (not TV star) suggests 8 stages of revolution:
        • Critical social problem exists
        • Prove failure of official institutions
        • Ripening conditions
        • Take off
        • Perception of failure
        • Majority public opinion
        • Success
        • Continuation
        Then there are 12 phases to “Success”:
        1. Keep the issues on the political and social agenda;
        2. Win majority support against current conditions and policies;
        3. Cause powerholders to change strategy although they do not solve problems;
        4. Counter each change in strategy by showing it is a gimmick, not a solution;
        5. Push powerholders to new strategies that take riskier positions and make it harder to hold old positions;
        6. Create strategic campaigns that erode support for the powerholders;
        7. Expand policy goals as the movement realizes the problems are greater than was evident;
        8. Develop stronger and deeper opposition to current conditions and policies;
        9. Promote solutions and a paradigm shift;
        10. Win majority support for the movement’s solutions;
        11. Put the issues on the political and legal agendas;
        12. Finally, the powerholders change positions to appear to get in line with public opinion while attacking the movement and its solutions (e.g. passing a Wall Street health law that claims to cover everyone while demonizing single payer health care which would be universal as too extreme).
        This is our struggle; there is much foment, organizing, and resistance already. Will the revolution we want come if we are (only) arm chairing it?

  41. Anthony DellAquila says:

    Any person or group of people that are considered a threat will be killed. No place on earth to hide. Work for small changes, vote, and hope. There will be no revolution in America, the government controls everything. As the saying goes “Thinking is one thing, doing is another” Thinkers aren’t much at doing. I also agree with others that there will be severe economic down turns because of the self-destructive nature of capitalism.

    Really like the podcast, good stuff.

  42. Sibel, hello. I’ve been away from BFP for several months. I just thought / felt the podcasts and interviews weren’t stimulating any thoughts or giving me any new info. Perhaps I was just tired of all the chatter. I’ve turned off many other talkers, too. I feel like I need a re-alignment and time to think by myself. Anyway, I love what you display…spunk, honesty, growth, vibrance and brilliance.

    There isn’t going to be any revolution in this country. There will be evolution. Americans do evolution best. They are innovative (sparking & leading change) and they are adaptable (followers that embrace changes). You guess the balance of the two. They don’t like radicals on any side (leftists or evangelicals). Americans mostly are forgiving people and don’t want revenge or retribution no matter which side they come from. If people do get angry or vengeful they immediately feel sorry for it. This is a “Christian Ethos” and it is predominant in this country.. This is what makes us evolutionary.

    There will be events to push each of us out of his/her comfort zone. Maybe a financial crisis, another 911 type event or other real or government created upheaval…maybe some sort of earth event like a huge solar flare or a Fukishima style mess…or maybe an engineering game-changer like a “free energy” motor….it could be anything on a large social scale or a smaller personal scale. But people in the US evolve…they adapt. Because they want to. Because they have to. Americans believe they have the freedom to innovate, the freedom to change and the freedom to push back on whoever (government or individuals) gets in their faces. This isn’t a left or right issue even though the leftists and the evangelicals think it is. This is why it is so important to the left and right to “brainwash” listeners using the national media and the educational system or any other social scene. Imagine what would happen if kids and adults alike were taught to think for themselves. Now that would be “revolutionary”.

    I really appreciate you, Sibel, asking this very important question. It has made me stop and think about what will happen next, how we will change, what I will become. “What will we as a society become” and “What will I the individual become” may NOT be the correct questions as you are asking. Perhaps the real question is “Who will each of us become” and what will that look like when we are all tossed together in our society. “What” vs. “Who”. The difference is subtle.

    • Glad to see and have you back, engine.

      I too was getting bored, antsy, and tired of the same repetitive format of the interviews/videos. You made a good point: ‘what’ vs. ‘who.’ I guess I got tired of all the experts keep telling us about ‘whats’: corruption, torture, false flags, surveillance, financial institutions/mafia … I was not posting comments, because, okay, I usually agreed with what was being said, but the question was ‘so what?’

      I guess this is an attempt to get to the bottom with ‘whys’and delve into ‘who.’ Look at the diseases rather than 1000s of symptoms, and then say, ‘what do “I” do about that & how.’ Rather than, ‘when will ‘someone’ do ‘something’ about this.’

      Looking forward to your future comments/questions and criticism.

      • Thomas Wonsetler says:

        Yes ! Exactly ! We know about the symptoms. Now lets do solutions ! Solution number one : Yoga by any other name ! Spiritual Enlightenment, Samadhi, Nirvana, Cosmic Consciousness, Infinite Consciousness, Divine Consciousness, Brahman, Tao, Paramatman, Divine Self Realization, Buddha Nature, Reality Realization, Ego Transcendence, Enlightenment, etc. ! ! ! Other solutions : Dr. Stsven Greer and CSETI with its Orion Project and the developdment of zero point energy or free energy ! Therefore liberation from slavery to oil, gas, coal and nuclear energy corporations, ending their wars and devestation ! Also the Zeitgeist Movement with Peter Joseph and others ! A fair, sane, intelligent, honest and compassionate economic system with abundance for all ! And of course always supporting natural, organic foods free of GMOs, and natural, wholistic, Ayurvedic, Oriental, Naturopathic, Homeopathic healthcare and medicine ! We all need to support all these things and whatever else is of the New Epoch ! We are entering a New Epoch, and have been in the transitional phase, especially since about 1965, which is due to begin about 2025 ! These and any other positive things are the solution and how we will enter a stunningly and dramatically New and way better Epoch ! ! ! We dont fight the darkness, we turn on the Light ! Of course part of that is pressuring the government to do the right things, but not to wait for the government ! Lets all do this together ! Now ! Thx Sibel ! Your a very good person with a good heart and very adorabke ! Lots of Love ! ♡♡♡♡♡

  43. 344thBrother says:

    engine:
    I enjoyed your thoughts. What vs who, a very interesting question.

    This come way late probably because I try to restrict my posts to the most recent podcast. This is getting too big to follow all the threads individually.

    To respond to your question in brief. Who will we become and evolution vs revolution.

    If we mostly evolve instead of revolt (I personally think both will happen out of necessity if nothing else). I’m a little stumped. I’m not sure our recent evolution into the techno-age is a good thing. If it continues in this path, it appears that we will be more and more connected with eachother using more and more remote means to do it. On the one hand it’s good (More information, more connection) on the other, you can’t hug an Ipad. To me what seems to be fading in our evolution is real personal contact. That looks like a dark path. Who we will become on that path? Connected but remote creatures, more and more self check out lines if you will. Staring into our computer or phone screen. Kind of sad.

    If it’s mostly revolution… I think it’s going to be fairly fast, I think things will happen from the top down sort of like the Russian revolution and the fall of the Berlin wall and then there will be a (Brief?) period of celebration followed by a lot of vacuum filling and that will be when things will get messy. Messy might actually be good in that people will tend to band together around family and friend/neighbor groups for defense and support, but it won’t be pretty.

    Beyond that, my spectacles don’t focus.

    I hope you keep posting engine 1 you’re thought provoking.
    peace on earth
    d

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