Podcast Show #8

The Boiling Frogs Presents John M. Cole

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John M. Cole discusses his 18 year journey at the FBI as a Counterintelligence and Counterespionage Operations Manager. He talks about Turkish and Israeli espionage operations in the US, the infiltration of the Bureau by a Pakistani spy, abuses of FISA applications, the TRILOGY software fiasco, and more.

John M. Cole, Former Veteran Intelligence Operations Specialist, worked for 18 years in the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division as an Intelligence Operations specialist and counterespionage manager. Cole is the author of While America Sleeps – now available at Amazon.

*Sibel’s Note- This interview was recorded prior to the cover story by the American Conservative Magazine. For a recent interview with John Cole visit Peter B Collins site: http://www.peterbcollins.com/podcast-45/

Here is our guest John Cole unplugged!

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  1. Anonymous says:

    In the John M. Cole interview he admits that the FBI caused a lot of heartache and false arrests. I can testify that both those happened to me with no defense allowed on my part. This happened prior to 1990, so it is nothing new. My best reconstruction of events suggests that it was work with Native Americans in South Dakota and Soviet Friendship groups in Arizona. To this day I do not know who managed my case, what their concerns were, or what possible legal violations I was charged with. I know false arrests occurred to me. I know that FBI or some intelligence community tried to doctor my records after U.S. Attorney General Richard Thornberg intervened on my behalf. The personal result was a limited professional career that kept my income just marginally within survival limits.
    I am not bitter, because I recognize this is a battle for freedom, and the price of liberty is eternal vigilance. If I did not believe unreservedly in a Higher Power, I would consider my life a waste. I know, however, that what I call the lightning rod principal is valid. Those who engineered my heartache and false arrest will pay directly in this life and in the next without my ever having to take any personal action other than tell the truth. This is a fundamental principal that all U.S. citizens and world citizens must acknowledge if they wish to preserve freedom in their own country.
    Currently I have proof that I am on a terrorist watch list for work with Quakers and advocating non-violence in the public school system.


  2. Anonymous says:
  3. Anonymous says:

    What do you expect from the FBI, when their two best Agents ever where J. Edgar Hoover and Clyde A. Tolson?

  4. Here's something of interest:

    From: "Rich McCampbell"
    Date: October 16, 2009 4:45:23 PM PDT
    To: washington.field@ic.fbi.gov
    Cc: Boston@ic.fbi.gov
    Subject: FBI to Review Evidence of 9-11-01 Explosives

    Dear FBI – WFO,

    I’m a member of Architects and Engineers for 911 Truth [ae911truth.org] and am following-up on a statement made by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Deputy Director Michael J. Heimbach that the FBI will review the evidence presented by ae911truth.org. That evidence indicates that military-grade demolition explosive nanothermite was detected in four dust samples from the collapsed World Trade Center Towers 1, 2, and 7. Director Heimbach was quoted in the attached Silicon Valley Metro newspaper.

    I give thanks to Deputy Director Heimbach and the FBI’s courageous action in this matter, the largest crime in US history. In these times of universal deceit I am very grateful for honest men like Deputy Director Heimbach and wish the FBI all success in following through on their review of the evidence [originally presented in a peer-reviewed paper published in the “Open Chemical Physics Journal”, Volume 2, ISSN: 1874-4125, which I’m very happy to send you a copy of the paper if you haven’t read it yet].

    The presence of thermite explosives in WTC dust is prima fascia evidence of US involvement in the WTC Towers collapses on 9-11-01. Per the legal requirements of Title 18 Section 2382 of the United States Code I hereby am reporting apparent acts of treason by entities within our own country and possibly within the US Military.

    Again, thank you for your efforts.

    May the truth of 9-11-01 lead to greater justice in the US and the world,

    Rich McCampbell, PE
    CRB Consulting Engineers, Inc.
    1 Kendall Square Ste B17001

    visit AE911Truth.org

  5. The Proud Primate says:

    prima facie (ablative singular)

  6. Gee! Kinda makes this series, being rebroadcast on IFC, rather prescient, Don't you think?

    Where Am I?

    In the Village.

    what do you want?


    Whose side are you on?

    That would be telling.

    We want information…information…information.

    You won't get it.

    By hook or by crook, WE WILL.

    Who are you?

    The New Number 2.

    Who is Number 1.

    YOU are Number 6.


    [makes the ok sign over the right eye and salutes]

    Be Seeing You.


  7. The key question: Why would FBI headquarters impede al Qaeda investigations? Some journalists have suggested risk aversion. IMO this is nonsense. What is risky about preventing a terrorist attack? One would think that failing to prevent a terrorist attack would be a bad career move, except as noted in the interview this failure didn't hurt anyone's career. Bizarre.

    The Gorelick wall wasn't in fact applicable. The search for al-Hazmi and al-Midhar should have been a sub-file under the existing USS Cole criminal case. Yet we have "risk aversion" by the UBLU agents who made sure the case remained on the intel side. Lawrence Wright notes that agent Soufan repeatedly requested information on the Malaysia al Qaeda meeting. It wasn't turned over until after 9/11.

  8. I've listened to the first 40 minutes of the interview and plan to listen to the rest when I get the chance. But if you don't mind, could you refresh my memory on the Pakistani general wiring $100,000 to Mohammed Atta? If I recall, that was a thinly sourced story coming from an Indian newspaper, and it seems that one of your other guests (Peter Lance?) downplayed that story. But both you and John seem to indicate that it is in fact true. Is this something you both have from your FBI sources?

  9. John Medeiros says:

    @ SanderO

    Interesting Email message. How did you come upon it, were you copied on the message sent by Mr. McCampbell, PE to the Washington.field@ic.fbi.gov office?

    Do you expect the FBI to follow through with an investigation and reply back to Mr. McCampbell?

  10. @ Miguel

    Go to History Commons and search Mahmud Ahmed. Or use the search term "$100,000", or "wired AND Atta".


    You'll get plenty of sources for quotes regarding money wired to Atta on multiple occasions. It appears pretty certain that Ahmed Saeed Sheikh wired some of these. He is known to be ISI. There are, I believe, several sources that suggest General Ahmed may have ordered some of the wires but you're correct that there is no source that says 'yes it's a fact'. Nevertheless with multiple, multiple wires coming through Dubai traced back to Pakistan and known ISI agents it seems fairly certain someone high up in ISI knew about this. I see no real reason to doubt Ahmed especially given that, I believe, he 'retired' not long after all this came out. But even if it wasn't him it was someone within ISI.

  11. Sibel Edmonds says:

    Miguel & Metem: You are right. Known undisputed facts: Grossman worked in US Embassy in Pakistan during the critical years (1979 to early 80s). 2- Grossman was very close to ISI General Mahmood. 3- Grossman was meeting with Mahmood in DC one day prior to Sep. 11; neither would say what the meeting was about.

    Hadiya Roberts (The Pakistani Translator-FBI): her father (General, also under Mahmood)worked for Mahmood. ISI was being monitored by the bureau (Pak. Mil. Attache' in DC). Mahmood: primary target.

    As for the wire: you are right. As far as I know the smoking gun/document is not there.

    You'd think many journalists would chase this angle; right?! Just to prove it: false or true…


  12. @ Simon

    Very well said.

    In regards to Mahmood wiring the money…even if there is no “smoking gun” document (or at least that hasn’t been uncovered), it is clear that the ISI was involved in dishing out the money the US was giving to fund the mujahadeen during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Given the history of the CIA and other intelligence agencies, it is certainly plausible, if not likely, that the ISI (with Mahmood playing a direct role, if not the one actually wiring the money) would be involved in the $100,000 transfer to Atta. Also, I have every reason to believe that Grossman, and many others, were double agents while working at high levels in the US government. It seems as if there is an entire network involved here, albeit a rather nebulous one. Certain individuals in high ranking positions in governments (ie. Grossman) use their connections, access to information, privileges, high level clearances, ect. as a commodity, trading their access, information, privilege,ect. for money to other foreign governments, who then use that information and possibly re-sell it, alter it, or pass it on (maybe even to confuse their customer or for dubious reasons). From the sounds of it, this enterprise, at least relating to Afghanistan (and I have every reason to believe South American countries as well), is also engaged in drug smuggling, weapons contracting/distribution, and possibly other illegal activities. It’s an extraordinarily complex networks of individuals, corporations, and possibly elements of governments, and the fact that there is absolutely no oversight of much of what intelligence agencies do is none to reassuring.

    By the way Sibel, I completely forgot that Grossman met with Mahmood in DC the day before 9/11, but remember it being discussed in one of the podcasts. Where was this reported? Who asked them what the meeting was about?

  13. JamesLaffrey says:

    I know this thread is dead. But for the occasional person foraging through old posts — as I have been doing for the last few days — this interview with John Cole is worth a listen.

    The info provided by Sibel, John Cole, and Peter Collins is important. And a few bits are things I don’t remember reading nor listening to elsewhere.

    Finally, it’s interesting that John Cole seems to not see the big picture, despite Sibel and Peter tactfully nudging him. He says he still can’t figure out why the FBI hired Hadiya Roberts. (As I recall from what Sibel said and wrote: Hadiya Roberts is the Pakistani FBI translator who worked in the same office as Sibel and whose father, a Pakistani general, worked for ISI general Mahmood. Mahmood wired $100,000 to 9/11 terrorist Atta shortly before the attacks of 9/11.) Of course, John Cole is still working for the government, the Pentagon, so perhaps he has to feign ignorance.

    If John Cole doesn’t see the big picture — the Deep State, as Sibel has stated — I hope he WILL see the big picture. We need him. Maybe he needs some more time to research and think these things through before reaching sequential “I Get It!” moments. That’s what I had to do, which was early 2009, as I realized I’d been duped by Obama.

  14. arealjeffersonian says:

    Sibel, thanks for clarifying this


  1. […] Last Friday Sibel posted her most recent podcast with Peter B. Collins, which was an interview with former FBI counter-intelligence officer John Cole. […]

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